Please excuse the grammatical errors, any other errors you come across, and the general sloppiness of this transcription of Much Abu About Nothing's podcast episode on Frozen! Our episodes are transcribed by a robot.
Tyler 00:00
content warning. Although this is a podcast about kids movies, this podcast isn't for kids and may contain content some people find offensive.
Misha 00:36
To Much Abu About Nothing, a podcast where we discuss and rate animated Disney films going in alphabetical order following a rigorous and scientific scoring system based on absolutely nothing. I'm Misha. And
Tyler 00:50
I'm Tyler. And this week we are talking about 2000 Thirteen's frozen, a Disney film. Yes, not a Pixar film. And What perfect timing, perfect timing. You're in the middle of an ice storm before recording, but Oh, yeah.
Misha 01:08
Or is covered in ice because Elsa got upset. And now we're covered a nice, folks.
Tyler 01:16
Thanks for joining us. How do we do this? Well, what we do is we look at a bunch of different categories and we give them scores of one out of 10. And this is without looking for the first time in history. The second time doing it, hopefully, but this will be the first time getting it completely right. In order. We've got originality story Yeah, I yeah, I shouldn't have like done it called shot originality.
Misha 01:48
Last time. Yeah, but
Tyler 01:51
you you got mad because I said a couple out of order. No, that was two times ago. Okay, so the for the second time in history, if you do it correctly, I'm just gonna look at it because now I'm like, fuck myself. originality, story, animation, music and sound protagonist, sidekick villain. henchmen strong female lead bipoc representation slash portrayal and a fun factor. And then we give negative points if something doesn't sit right. And bonus points for that special effervescence that Disney slash Pixar slash whatever magic. The reason I think I was getting a little confused is because I wanted to actually maybe not go in that order this time to mess with things a little bit. Because the protagonist and sidekick type categories are directly kind of like super close to the story thing. I think so. I don't know. We'll see. But maybe it makes sense to like, talk about story and then talk about the characters this time around. What do you think?
Misha 02:50
No? Well, at whatever Sure, whatever you want to order
Tyler 02:53
our order of categories is completely arbitrary. Anyway, so
Misha 02:57
yeah, who cares? Let's just get into it. Alright, so what is frozen Maria about?
Tyler 03:03
What is frozen about?
Misha 03:05
Okay, frozen is about two princesses. One was born with magical ice powers. And when they were children, the two princesses Elsa the one with powers. And Anna the one without? We're playing and Elsa accidentally struck? Anna with frozen. Beam Freezy power array of forehead. Yep. Ray of frost. Okay. And the parents, the king and queen of m del? M Arendelle. Arendelle. Is that right? Arendelle. Bring Anna to trolls Little Rock trolls in the forest to cure her. And in order to cure her head frozen the freezing problem. They wipe brain freeze memories because that'll bring her back from the cold. And then they have to hide else's powers. From everybody hiding
Tyler 04:27
Elsa, including from
Misha 04:29
Anna. I don't know why. And then they grow up where they are. They don't ever see each other, I think at all.
Tyler 04:40
Yeah, classic, like sort of overcompensation move like okay, there's possible dangerous so let's imprison our daughter for and
Misha 04:49
do like she used to learn to control it. And their responses by never learning how to control it and just shoving it under the rug. Yeah backfires, obviously.
Tyler 05:03
Well the best way to that's sort of Ned Flanders School of Psychology. Like the best way to control your emotions is bury them deep down inside. And hope they don't explode out.
Misha 05:13
But they do because she's also human. And the parents go on a sailing trip. They die. dead parents. So the two girls are left classic. The two girls are left and well usually it's just a dead mom.
Tyler 05:36
Yeah, but there are a lot of like orphans in the the like orphan trope is pretty strong and Disney films as well. Yeah. So Cinderella. I mean, with most of these kids, they never had a mom because the mom is just non existent was never written but the dad then dies like Cinderella, right? Yeah, as an orphan. A bunch of white to I want to say Jasmine didn't have a mom. Max goof didn't have a mom.
Misha 06:03
Anyway, so brave had
Tyler 06:05
a dad who was basically a big fucking idiot. And my mom had a mom that was there. Yeah. Anyway. Anywho coronation day.
Misha 06:13
So when Elsa comes of age, it's her coronation day, and they open the castle up to all the everybody's who live in all of Scandinavia. And people show up to congratulate her
Tyler 06:29
other places too. I heard like a maybe Italian and French accent was
Misha 06:33
a French accent that I write right. Okay, so Europe,
Tyler 06:36
and I think this weasel tin weasel town play vessel tin is like Germany or something. Okay, so let's read Germany. All right. All right. It's fun to see.
Misha 06:45
So Europe shows up to congratulate her for becoming queen. And then Anna meets Hans who's a prince Yeah, and they sexy
Tyler 06:58
side Birdman
Misha 07:00
guy though. Sideburns were out of control. Yeah, they really animated the hell out of those very gross sideburns.
Tyler 07:11
That was waiting for him to like try to sell someone a Smash Mouth album or something like at some point during the movie. Did you hear about or like at that
Misha 07:18
party? Mouth? He was like yelling and being an anti Vaxxer and racist at a wine festival recently did you hear about that story?
Tyler 07:25
I didn't Oh wait no. Buddy once told me about it yeah
Tyler 07:34
I didn't hear it
Misha 07:36
he just like went off his rocker cuz because he's a rocker because genuinely apologize for that. My friend was at that wine festival she didn't see it happen she just happened to be there at the same event. Upstate like who knows where it but anyway? Sideburns gross. Elsa and Han sideburns. Hit it off. Strike up a fancy Is that how you say it? They strike the struck a fancy they stroke to fancy for one another?
Tyler 08:13
Well, it's that's what they're hoping for.
Misha 08:19
They fall in love. Sparks flew. And they in one song decided to get married. Yep. And Anna goes and Hans go to Elsa to ask for her blessing. So they can get married. It's
Tyler 08:35
your big day. But let me try to upstage like getting married getting
Misha 08:40
injured. Yeah. And Elsa is like what the fuck are you talking about? Who is he? And and I was like you don't understand we're in love. I met him five minutes ago. Yeah, and else's like you asked for my blessing and I'm not giving it to you because what the fuck are you doing? And they start fighting. And Anna is getting upset and pulls the glove off of Elsa. And Elsa gets mad and Ice Beam shoot out of her and then everybody knows that she is so magical.
Tyler 09:18
The winter queen
Misha 09:20
and so she gets mad and runs off and ice follows her everywhere and her she's so sad that she runs off into the mountains to be allowed to go and let go and to let it what go I'm not sure to let go the pushing down of her magical powers and just letting her magical powers be and shoot out of her and make an ice castle and I chandeliers and I stairs. Fortress
Tyler 09:57
of Solitude if you will
Misha 10:01
If I do yeah, I do I
Tyler 10:04
just a solid today. Yeah. Pressure like a drip drip drop. You gotta let it go. Oh, and she gets there whether she I mean, I guess magically probably she gets there like immediately or there's just bad pacing because it takes Anna later spoiler forever.
Misha 10:21
No, that makes sense because Anna doesn't have a magic ice feat and has to trudge through snow and ice where Elsa can just zip zip, zap never going to stop all her way to the ice castle.
Tyler 10:39
Mountaintop that's very
Misha 10:42
shallow and
Tyler 10:47
key so it's all in the mind if you want to test me.
Misha 10:51
It's all in the mage gonna have myself a really big luggage.
Tyler 10:56
That's also quite good, too.
Misha 10:57
Thank you. Thank you.
Tyler 11:01
So and it goes after
Misha 11:02
right? So else's in a mountain ice Fortress of Solitude. And it goes after her. She runs into stops. Christoph and, and Stan his reindeer. Yep. And they go up to the ice castle and confront Elsa. And Anna asks Elsa to come back and tells her Oh, the whole place is winter now because you're upset and you left us and you have to turn it back to summer. And Elsa doesn't know how. And she doesn't want to go back. And she accidentally kind of on purpose strikes Anna in the heart with her ice arrays and the trolls at the beginning warned the family that ICE raids to the heart that'll kill you ICE raids to the brain. No problem.
Tyler 12:09
Well, they said it's harder. It's harder to fix it when it hits the sun.
Misha 12:13
He couldn't the troll couldn't fix it. Yeah. But it can kill you. Yeah, I guess we could. Who knows?
Tyler 12:22
Who knows? Yeah, brain freeze might just be like Slurpee, could a Slurpee kill you? You
Misha 12:26
just get like a cool streak and then you just sleep for a little bit wake up. I'm fine. Shake it off,
Tyler 12:32
forget everything and like, get everything
Misha 12:36
and so they go back to town. Now
Tyler 12:41
Christophe Christophe like rabid races her to
Misha 12:44
wait there's an Elsa makes an ice snow monster. Shoot away Get out of here. No, don't go back shoo shoo. So they leave and Anna's ice condition is worsening so they go back to everyone device round now.
Tyler 13:08
Firstly, go see the trolls if you recall. Now I do.
Misha 13:14
They go see the troll because I didn't see because yes, because Christoph Witten witnessed the trolls curing Anna the first time. And he's friends with them. And so he
Tyler 13:30
adopted family. Yeah. Are they kind of me kind of make it sound like because when he goes or as a kid in the beginning, one of the mama trolls was like your mind now and then when they go back? They definitely miss me. It seems like he's an orphan too. There's no he's got no families. Jesus Christ. Okay, his family is Fenn. But when he when they go visit the trolls and the trolls immediately start trying to match them up with that.
Misha 13:55
We love you because you live around here. They
Tyler 13:57
it seemed to it seemed to imply that it was an adopted family.
Misha 14:02
Or just a close relationship like Tyler you're my bro but like, you know,
Tyler 14:06
yeah, I mean, maybe I maybe I've read a bit too much. It's definitely seemed to imply that he was like adoptive family but didn't get oh, sorry. Sorry. He says we're going to see my friends who are love experts, actually. Yeah, actually, I should clarify. They're my family. Oh, it does say that my family.
Misha 14:21
Hey, I missed that. I missed that. Yeah, that is just from our that he wouldn't call them his friends at the beginning. Yeah,
Tyler 14:29
that that's a bit that's not to say it's bizarre that he that's his family. Oh,
Misha 14:34
Taylor. You know, my mantra families are formed in all ways.
Tyler 14:43
They immediately tried to like literally, shotgun wedding.
Misha 14:47
Yeah, so Okay, so they go see the trolls. The trolls are like, Oh, you brought a girl home. That must mean that you're gonna marry her and you're in love with each other and so they try to get them to be married. But they and then bit of a big
Tyler 15:05
flying to kinda flying between Christoph and Anna kind of a little bit burgeoning, burgeoning sparks kindling, if you will, is starting to go leg tingling there's a lot of there's a lot of tingling crinkled tinkle. Oh
Misha 15:21
boy, they speaking of Arrested Development, there is a full theft of a line from Arrested Development in this movie and we'll get to it with music. Anyway, the some trial comes out and says I can't cure the heart only an act of true love can cure your frozen heart. Okay, so then they go, we got to get you to calm mind who you're Botros to are engaged to not patrolled. That's different that you're engaged to he'll kiss you on the mouth and warm your heart. Yeah. And so they rush back to the castle. And a barely makes it. Hans takes her there bout to kiss. And he says Just kidding. I'm a fucking asshole. I'll do this because I want your country, bitch. I never loved you. I tricked you the whole time. locks her up, puts the fire out and she starts dying. Yeah, he locks her in there tells everybody that she's dead. Yeah, so he can claim Marone for himself, calls Elsa who they captured. I forgot about the whole section. Okay, all the people who are soldiers and whatnot and princes, yada, yada. Go to Elsa and her Frozen castle. Catch her. handcuffed her put these little froat like metal mitts so she can't cast Freezy spells.
Tyler 16:51
Yeah, then like that's gonna keep her down.
Misha 16:54
I know. I know. So stupid. I wrote. I was like, Okay, if they really wanted to stop her. They should just cut her hands off. Yeah, Hans off this so yeah. Oh, okay. So he Hans is like, Anna's dead. I'm I'm in charge. I'm Oh, and he told them they got married. Yep, they did it with her. As with her dying breath, we said our vows and we're married bullshit liar at all. And then he says, so that would never stay. Yeah. No, it wouldn't. There's nothing written down. Whatever. And then he says, And Elsa is a traitor. I'm gonna murder her hanger. Kill her for treason with a heavy heart. Yeah, yeah. Right. And yeah, heavy heart made of ice I made
Tyler 17:47
of ice. Yeah.
Misha 17:50
Ice to see you. I was just cool it
Tyler 17:55
chill out.
Misha 17:58
And then the ice start spreading through the town and the castle even more. And it freezes the handcuff mittens off of Elsa. And she escapes. Then Hans goes after her and Hans tells her that oh, all off goes and rescues off. Oh, fuck.
Tyler 18:31
You had not mentioned I was wondering if you're gonna go there all the time. But ignore him Volta.
Misha 18:38
I mean, he's really not needed. Because Anna could have just escaped without him. Let's just rewrite this he Anna Yeah,
Tyler 18:49
she she's like dead until he shows up and suddenly she's got enough energy to like go but he's the one who I mean he serves a plot device he introduced to the idea that fire Love is Love is sacrifice and unconditional. And you know, it's it's maybe she's young
Misha 19:06
and doesn't know anything about love. And for some reason this snowman that's lived like what six days? knows all about love.
Tyler 19:14
One day, two days one day, maybe?
Misha 19:18
I don't know how long this takes. Sure a day. Let's just say a day. Yeah.
Tyler 19:24
So he was mad he was made when they were kids for those who haven't seen this movie, and then magically animated somehow when Elsa went apeshit and somehow he came back as
Misha 19:33
a manager Fortress of Solitude right and he came back maybe
Tyler 19:38
it's like a manifestation of else's like grief or trauma of like what happened as a kid like he pops up as this little fucking comedic
Misha 19:48
character ugly.
Tyler 19:49
That's how he was okay. I mean, we'll get to him but Oh, God. Oh, anyway, climax and it goes looking for the true Love.
Misha 20:00
Anna goes she realizes oh my god Hans isn't my true love. It's Christophe. So she runs escapes, goes to find Christoph Christoph realizes that she needs help comes back. He left he dropped her off was like, bye, but the reindeer is like you love her. All the side kicks are like this is who you who you love. Yeah. kiss the girl. They go and they see each other. And they're running towards each other. About to kiss or embrace but then turn around, wants shows up. He's about to kill Elsa. And as he's coming down with his sword to kill Elsa. Anna goes not today and runs over and sister love forever. Like
Tyler 20:48
the sheriff not to pick that arm over. Not today.
Misha 20:53
Not and then puts herself in front of Elsa in between Elsa and Hans. And as he's striking down. Anna totally freezes over. And he shatters her hand. Right? Doesn't his his.
Tyler 21:13
His sword shatters.
Misha 21:14
That's okay. And
Tyler 21:16
the ice doesn't somehow so
Misha 21:18
the sword shatters? I know. I don't. That's why I got confused because I think while it was happening I was expecting I like visualized her hand and I was just like it was she going to come back without a hand. I like pictured all of this as it was happening. Okay, you know what, Tyler? I apologize for saying Oh, is she gonna come back without a hand because
Tyler 21:39
some people thought it'd be cool if she came back with like this like, bisected arm like a like a like almost like two tentacles.
Misha 21:48
Like a squid thing. It's like, Yeah,
Tyler 21:51
but they're like, they're like fused or like frozen. Like, so she's that bleeding everywhere because it's been like frozen and fused. So it's just like this weird, spindly, like sort of eldritch not gonna do that arm. Now
Misha 22:04
they're nursed that like, quote disability or the worst scarring that she gets is like a cute streak of less reddish hair.
Tyler 22:18
Yeah, well as one of the I think he was like misquoted but was one of the animators said, like, you know, the challenge with some of these movies is like, giving them a full range of emotions and things to do while keeping them pretty. And I think he was misquoted and take it was taken out of context, but he got a lot of heat for saying that I get that as far as never call. Anyway.
Misha 22:37
Got it. Anyway. So
Tyler 22:46
were shattered on this Hans is thrown back by the magic of the ice lady.
Misha 22:52
Sure. And
Tyler 22:57
I literally shunted out of fray Elsa
Misha 23:00
realizes the sacrifice that Anna just made for her. But guess what? That was the act of true love. That's mooching some douchey bro it was the this is my favorite part.
Tyler 23:14
That was probably the best part
Misha 23:16
really? Because the whole time you're thinking she that Anna needs to be the recipient of a kiss Krista? of true love and it turns out she's the one who does the act of true love. And it's for her sister. Because that is awesome in the literal awesome not like the way we have to totally awesome bro. Crush. So the so that act of true love that Anna did for her sister melts her frozen heart and she comes back to life and I was so happy that she has her sister back of the spell is lifted. She automatically gets perfect control over her ice magical powers. And happily ever after. The Arendelle is saved and the sisters are saved and they go back to being queen and princess.
Tyler 24:12
And Anna and Kristoff finally like start bumping
Misha 24:15
uglies. They Okay, hold on. She gave him us both on the cheek. And
Tyler 24:22
then they switched. They switch hard after that. They did. Yeah, they switched like for real after that. And they sort of boning. And Stan was like filming it.
Misha 24:33
So that was post was there in the corner.
Tyler 24:38
He's got a last character Sandy's has vigorously.
Misha 24:42
That's the worst thing you've ever said to.
Tyler 24:48
Boy, howdy. So let's let's get into it. Okay. Oh, and
Misha 24:53
yeah, Christophe has made the official ice Bringer. Yeah, that's it. it
Tyler 25:00
yeah and he gets like a nice new sled because his sled got destroyed while helping Anna and I don't know. Yeah Did like they had to hop over to escape the wolves that got destroyed and Anna said I'll get you a new sled keep helping me. And and She fulfilled her promise. Hmm.
Misha 25:17
Okay, yeah,
Tyler 25:18
let's get into it originality is first up I suppose. As usual this
Misha 25:22
is really original. I think you're being facetious right? Wait, is it based off of something else?
Tyler 25:30
It is based off a Hans Christian Andersen called The Snow Queen. Oh,
Misha 25:36
that's why the Snow Queen.
Tyler 25:40
Yeah, that and I was trying to
Misha 25:42
I was just thinking how original is that you have like the whole act of true love being about sisters and it's like all these other stupid boys can go home.
Tyler 25:53
I mean, they change it. It's just it's it's just not original in the original. The original treatment was going to be very closely following the Snow Queen. But the Snow Queen is like classic Hans Christian Andersen mega dark so it was like too dark for Disney. So they changed it quite a bit. In the end, the story is quite different but but much much like Little Mermaid. Like it's it's like it's it's not original or like Alice in Wonderland. It's been and also the Snow Queen has been done quite a lot like Alice in Wonderland. So yeah, not original. Despite the parts that are probably like original in the movie. I
Misha 26:27
guess I was thinking it's original for Disney. That it's not like that. The whole premise that true love isn't romantic, true love that there can be and to me that was kind of the biggest. But then the rest of it is based off of something else. So I guess it's not original? Can we get to finality of like,
Tyler 26:51
I mean, shouldn't that be like the story points then because that's like really story? That's not really I guess we could we could we could open this up because well, I I'd like to sort of open it back up discussion because you might have a point there. Usually when we think of originality, we're like, like, how original is Coco? Like its original idea it is whereas was like Alice in Wonderland has been was based on a book done many times Bambi so
Misha 27:15
what Aladdin is in the Snow Queen.
Tyler 27:18
So in the Snow Queen. I don't remember all the details because I didn't look it up. But like there's one princess or soon to be queen who has like ice powers and freezes the land and the other one who tries to save her sister and like I think falls in love along the way. But then like it's, as far as I remember classic Hans Christian Andersen. Most of them don't make it out alive. Right. I don't remember. I don't remember all the details, actually. But I think I
Misha 27:48
mean, there are a lot of snow queen.
Tyler 27:51
Yeah, that's what I'm saying. It's like, it's like the I mean, even the bad guy in line, which in the wardrobe is was inspired by the Snow Queen. Yeah. The White Witch or whatever she's called.
Misha 28:05
Yeah, I mean,
Tyler 28:07
I think it's, I mean, the idea is not original, but maybe they take a little bit of a, they take a little bit of a, you know, a Disney twist to it, obviously. But anyway, like, do we want to give them a little bit of originality for like, the the twist on the Disney trope?
Misha 28:25
Maybe just a point or two. Yeah,
Tyler 28:28
maybe like two instead of a one like this. Otherwise, it would be like a one. But they they sort of they flipped the script, the Disney scripts a little which is nice to see. If even though Anna does still in the end, fall in love with a boy, that's not the point, which is nice. Yeah. I like that. I mean, I also want to give it like story points for that sort of thing too. But we can do to amp up the originality a little bit. Okay, well, let's get to story then. Okay, are we are we good with two out of 10? Okay, cool. Well, I like that it's gonna complicate things even more like bringing another spicy element to originality. story. Yeah, what did you think about the story overall?
Misha 29:10
Overall, I liked it. I like I said, the best part is when you realize that it's, there's two things, not just that it's not about a boy, but it's about sisters, and I really liked that. Yep. Maybe I'm biased because I have a sister and I'm the youngsters are great. Yeah, there's just two of us. So it's kind of awesome. And the second thing is that it's not what I really like that it's not waiting for something to happen to you. It's that the act of true love was the protagonist Anna doing the act. Right. So you don't have to wait for something. You don't have to sort of be on the sidelines like oh, I have to wait for Prince to kiss me. If that act of true love means you're going kissing that Prince for you're going and saving somebody or you're doing like you do it. And I really liked that. Yeah,
Tyler 30:10
this is also 2000. I mean, It's too, too late, obviously, but like 2013, as opposed to later, like now it's more normal, like 2018 is Molana. And right, and, but it was before this brief war, but um, but yeah, it's nice that like in the 2000s 2000 10s, or whatever they're called, we start seeing more of these types of stories coming out of like Disney, Pixar, and other places, too.
Misha 30:39
But what I did not like is I did not understand the magic and like, and not that we need to know we've said this before. Like, I don't, I don't need to know how it's created. She's born magical fine. I believe that. But I was just really confused what happened to Anna in the beginning with her like brain freeze, and why they had to wipe her memories. I just had a hard time getting past that. Yeah,
Tyler 31:05
I think much like, I guess the closest thing I don't want to like rehash but like much like in Kanto this movie, like the point and the message are quite nice. But I think like the story itself, like suffers from bad explanations, pacing problems, like the classic sort of rushed parts that are rushed that maybe shouldn't be rushed. And other parts that are like we really spent a lot of time with and maybe we don't need that much time with like, this particular scene,
Misha 31:34
and there's some extra characters that feel like they're going to have a larger point in the movie or like a larger role and then they don't and yeah, why introduce them? Like the weasel town?
Tyler 31:47
I really didn't. We didn't really need him bless his heart, but we didn't really need him. Right? Yeah, but but again, like in content like the story, the theme of it, or like the message of it was, was quite nice. Like you said, I thought the montage in the beginning so in the for those who haven't seen in a while, they get from like a child and getting struck by the snow and then that like the beginning is mostly a montage of like Elsa, having to hide away and Anna like growing up without her sister. I like how they sped through that because it was really depressing to just watch Anna. They do. Yeah, in a song slash montage. I also like how they just kind of got past the parents dying without making it like a massive plot point. Because it's just so tired by this point, that trope. I also just thought like, yeah, it's just it's just annoying when it's like the this will we've talked about this before the Goofy Movie. It's like, just fucking communicate like the this movies bein problem is like the parents lock a daughter away. Yeah. And don't talk about anything. And Elsa doesn't like talk through the door. And like,
Misha 32:59
that was very strange, because it sets it up that Elsa never leaves her room. And Anna literally sees not a single other person ever.
Tyler 33:15
Yeah, maybe the waitstaff like the butler on the major was
Misha 33:18
just a chef really bizarre that for what a decade? Maybe? Anna just keeps knocking on Alice's door like Hello, are you there? Hello. Like, wouldn't you think that that person would be dead on the other side?
Tyler 33:33
Yeah, and probably what we're getting like behind the scenes, not in the camera frame is like the parents saying she's okay. She's just very tired or whatever. And Anna, like never trained we have, we have no evidence that Elsa talks to her at any point, because of the way things go. So
Misha 33:49
they're, like 100% isolated from each other. Which is really weird. for
Tyler 33:55
that. Let's actually child abuse is what it is. And Elsa is part is part of it. She's like, well, I don't want to I don't want to I don't want to hurt anybody. But that's because she's been conditioned to think that Right? Right. It's like she's a very disgusting, that
Misha 34:11
child abuse where she thinks that she'll kill her sister if she sees her. Yeah.
Tyler 34:16
Which is why the big moment the big like, let it go capital L moment in the middle of the movie, or like 30 something minutes in is really, really I think super powerful. Because it's like, you know, she just doesn't give a fuck anymore. And it's like, it's really it's like a nice freeing moment in the movie, I think. I mean, obviously, it's like she's, well, like nowhere near being good yet, you know, but it's like, I don't know. It was a really good cathartic moment, I think for that character. But we can talk about it with the characters. That's not so much story. But it's just like, yeah, and then when Anna first meets her sister again at the coronation, she she's so messed up that she's just trying to please her sister, instead of being like, what the fuck who are you who will write like What's this like? And then so she lashes out and then the sister lashes out. And it's like, but overall the story Yeah, I mean, I just had some issues with like the pacing to get to the point where Elsa I don't know like I liked how they got to
Misha 35:14
bed we'll talk about Elsa when we get to the characters, but I don't even know who she is in this because that's
Tyler 35:24
one reason I said maybe let's Yeah, we could talk about the character things right after story because yeah, let's do that there's some
Misha 35:31
yeah, there's some confusing things to me that I wasn't so
Tyler 35:35
do you want to give a story a score first and do more things that we shouldn't debate about a score? I think I like it but I don't think it's like super great because they're just like the there's some fluff that I don't think should have been there. I think the trolls were honestly like totally not necessary. Like, let's go to plot device mountain and visit the plot devices and have them tell us something about love and I they're cute, but I just felt like they kind of and then like Olof, like I know that we needed some like comedic element to the movie, but actually parts I really liked. But I think like the impaling part I really like and I like his little stupid laugh too. I think it's really cute. But there's like then there's a little bit too much Oh off. And I likes fan but I don't like the whole Kristoff doing this fan talking voice although that's supposed to be charming or
Misha 36:26
whatever that confused me and I did not like that is
Tyler 36:30
yeah, don't talk for your friends. Let them speak for themselves.
Misha 36:33
At first I was like, Is this reindeer? Talking? No, no. Yeah,
Tyler 36:39
and then the the some of the extra like soldiers and other people I feel like
Misha 36:44
I don't know. There were a lot of characters mushed
Tyler 36:48
into this a lot of characters smushed in.
Misha 36:50
I don't like the story though. i So what's interesting is we're talking about in condo, right? And how that was kind of confusing. The pacing was weird. We didn't even understand what the plot was right? Like and what the grandma had to do with anything. And then, but that got a seven. And I thought this story was better, but I don't think it's
Tyler 37:16
well, we basically I think that's probably what we have to do with Frozen is like we gave and con to the story based on like what it means rather than and we took points off for for pacing, bad explanation, sort of fuzzy logic. Right. So I think it's the same here. Like the story is really strong. It's just like, I feel like some things got rushed. Yeah, and some things maybe shouldn't have been had as much time as they did. Like the whole. Yeah, I mean, anyway, already just be rehashing. But I think like I said, it sounds good to me, like somewhere. It's
Misha 37:47
- Yeah. I agree.
Tyler 37:51
Cool. Okay, so from here, let's pause animation and music and jump to protagonist and talk about that. Yeah.
Misha 37:57
Yeah,
Tyler 37:58
I think so. I
Misha 38:00
said that Anna was the protagonist
Tyler 38:02
and I tend to agree with you. Yeah, I think she is she's driving most of the movie everything. Yeah. Now the debate I guess is whether or not we want to where we want to put Elsa I perhaps
Misha 38:14
what I'm confused about and I don't think she is in our categories.
Tyler 38:19
No, she's not a sidekick. She's also not the villain. The villain is Hans Zimmer. So she's just, she's, she's an important character, but she's kind of in a weird right space. And I think that's good because they they actively were like, We need to make a complicated character who's not the bad guy like this wicked witch that right that can be turned good. In the end. She's
Misha 38:42
like, she creates this monster and it's never because it's never out of malice. It's that she's trying to protect people keep other people keep them away from her and keep Anna safe even though she hurt. And and didn't mean to but you know, family relationships are complicated, messy and difficult.
Tyler 38:59
Yeah. She, yeah. I mean, she's like, uh, I mean, I get it. Why, like, you know, when it came out, I didn't see this movie until a couple years ago, I think but, you know, when it came out, it was everywhere. It's very popular, but like a lot of a lot of people, not just young girls like gravitated to Elsa as a character because she's, I mean, she just is a really interesting and like rich character. I think like for Disney especially she's like, really not Yeah, two dimensional. She's got like depth to her. She makes mistakes and does stupid things. Like not communicating obviously, but the mistakes she makes her like human and interesting. And she's, yeah, she's, she's a great character, but she doesn't fit into a category really. Maybe we can give. I do think actually we can fit her in and here's how I think we can do it. I think she and what she represents what she brings to the movie really ramps up the effervescence. Personally for me, not so much fun factor, but I think maybe we can bring Elsa into it that way or I guess like As a little extra bonus on, she's not a sidekick, but like maybe like know the fact that she maybe she's part of.
Misha 40:06
She's a queen. So she's, yeah,
Tyler 40:09
we could bring her in that way too. Like strong female lead. Yeah. Strong
Misha 40:12
lead. I mean, yeah, it's gonna be high though because this is all female lead. Yeah.
Tyler 40:18
So maybe that's how we bring her in. I was trying to find a way but yeah, the that's the obvious one.
Misha 40:22
We have to find a way to bring her in because part of what makes the story good is out like, yeah, we're really what it is, is that she's part of the story. And that's, do we want
Tyler 40:32
to give a story eight instead of seven, or do you think seven? I mean, seven sounded just right to me. But now I'm wondering I think
Misha 40:40
I was wondering about giving it an EIGHT anyway, because I think it is a good story. And canta All right. Okay, let's leave it as a seven.
Tyler 40:52
All right. So Anna, then protagonist.
Misha 40:56
No, we should give it an EIGHT because I think it's better than in Kondo.
Tyler 40:59
I kind of also do too. Weirdly. Okay.
Misha 41:01
Yeah, I think overall,
Tyler 41:05
I like clear there but the story is clear. And the story is better in frozen. Yeah, I think
Misha 41:13
I like it content better for very different reasons. And it doesn't have anything to do with the story. Yeah, unless that's not true. It doesn't matter. We're not talking about in condo. Yeah,
Tyler 41:22
we're not talking about we can't talk about Bruno anymore.
Misha 41:24
We can't talk about uncontacted. No, no, no.
Tyler 41:28
So Anna, the protagonist, Anna is a scrappy, She's smart. She's funny. She makes mistakes. She's very naive. But that's because of her upbringing. I do not. I do not blame her for that. Like reading, she probably probably grows up reading fairy tale books by herself. So I mean, I get it. Like, I get that she's like, I want to, like meet a dude fall in love and escape this, like sort of drudgery that I live in.
Misha 41:57
Right, this loneliness? Of course, she's fine. Yeah.
Tyler 42:01
I must confess. I do believe that I would do the same thing. Yeah, like when she's out with Elsa, she loses her mind almost sucks. So I mean, Hans, give me a sign.
Misha 42:12
Hit me.
Tyler 42:15
One more time. One more time. loves an open road. Yeah, I think she's really I think she's really great. I guess one downside is they tie her journey too much to Hans and Christoph.
Misha 42:30
I don't think that's her doing. It felt like other people kept saying, okay, true. Love. You need to go find Hans. Yeah. So Hans, you need to go find Christoph. And she's like, okay,
Tyler 42:46
yeah, but, but it's also the movie putting Chris off there. And it's like, wink, wink, nudge nudge. He's the real punk. And like, I mean, that's, that's like they're riding her into, like, railroad tracks, like going sort of one way but but the nice thing is she's I mean, she again, like like, her sister is very interesting.
Misha 43:04
And she chooses her sister over Kristoff, and I love that. It's like, that was
Tyler 43:09
great. It's like the writing in the movie. I mean, this makes no sense. But it's almost as if like the whole movie and writing and everything was pushing her this way. And she just Yes, she just jumped out of the train. And when your care Oh, nice, Pat. Yeah. Cover a nice path. Right to her sister. Yeah, I mean, I
Misha 43:26
think she's great that I liked that. She looked at him like this could this will save my life, but I need to save my sister's life. And I think she gets a lot of points for that because it's the best part of the movie. Yeah.
Tyler 43:37
I can smash that later. And the story now I've got to smash the patriarchy. Okay, okay. All right. Well, we got
Misha 43:49
we say she's okay, though.
Tyler 43:53
I think she's great.
Misha 43:54
I don't know. Yeah. Okay.
Tyler 43:56
I mean, my problems with her are music related, not Ana related. So
Misha 44:05
I think my problem with her is that there's this thing that TV and movies do where it's like, if you want a charming female character, she has to be clumsy.
Tyler 44:19
She has to be clumsy and quirky. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And I'm like,
Misha 44:25
I find that irritating because it's all the time. Yeah. And like when Jennifer Lawrence tripped go at the Oscars, everybody lost their fucking minds and just their pants because they're like, Oh, she's real and clumsy. And we love her and now she's relatable. And she was before but even more it's just like people can be put together. Yeah, and still be charming. Yeah,
Tyler 44:50
I think it's like yeah, it's it's it's the it's,
Misha 44:53
it's people who know it's like this idea. Yeah, no, I
Tyler 44:56
get it. I want to say feeds
Misha 44:58
into the sexist idea. Yeah, that like yeah, that women can't be charming otherwise
Tyler 45:08
Yeah, it's like Yeah, exactly. And it's it's often a sign of bad writing too, like bad sexist writing. It's like, okay, we're this is a three dimensional woman like she plays video games or like she burps or like, She's clumsy. Like, give her one thing that is, like one little ticker or whatever. And, yeah, I get that. I mean, I still think she's a great character, but I do. Okay. Perfect. Yeah, and I agree that Yeah. I did like the part where they showed us like, they smash cut to her sleeping and like, she's like snoring and that drool was discussed. I was quite quite good. I like that. Like, that's that's realism that is really relatable as a snore as a snore in a drill. Probably jeweler, I would say. Yeah,
Misha 45:54
but yeah, I liked her.
Tyler 45:55
I would say I don't know. Yeah, like hi, but not perfect. So maybe like, and with the things you mentioned, like an eight. Yeah, an
Misha 46:04
eight. Yeah, I think an eight is good.
Tyler 46:06
Eight works. Do we want to keep going with character stuff?
Misha 46:10
Yeah, let's keep going with characters so
Tyler 46:13
sidekick would be well Kristoff. Sven and Olaf, I would say. Yeah.
Misha 46:19
Hmm.
Tyler 46:21
Sounds great.
Misha 46:22
Alex fan. I like spend too,
Tyler 46:26
like I like Olaf in moments. But we'll as we'll see and Christoph to first off to I think he's just a little boring. I think he's like a little bland. Yeah, he is blade show him and send his kids. Oh my god. Oh, so cute. If they could just like have stayed that age and then been helpful as well as just take out the romantic sub sub plot. Obviously, she's gonna say it like Stan. Stan as a little reindeer. Kid was just so cute. Yeah, and I mean, as we'll see in Frozen two, there is a there is a amount of Olaf that can be handled. I think there's SPOILER ALERT king of reindeer TMO and frozen too, I think but oh, we got it. Perfect.
Misha 47:08
We sure do. Nice. We got it. Perfect. Okay,
Tyler 47:15
is it about their velvet?
Misha 47:18
Now, okay. Well, this is a fun fact that I didn't write down but here in winter. Typically, male reindeer shed their antlers before females do female antlers will shed their antlers at the end of winter. And male antler shed their reindeer the beginning. And so for Christmas reindeer. Those are all female. Every single one of Santos reindeer are female. But in this case, it was summer. Yeah. So Chris saying is be a boy, I guess. Right? So that's a separate thing. But did you know that reindeer can run up to 31 miles per hour?
Tyler 48:05
I didn't know that exact number, but I knew they could run really fast. Yeah, and they can run very far fast.
Misha 48:10
And yeah, wolves can burst do like bursts of speed up to 38 miles per hour, which is pretty fast. But there's no last animal they usually just sort of trot around. They can't hold it for as long and it's while they're chasing prey they'll like do bursts of really high speed. So in this case, like when we saw the wolves chasing the reindeer who's also pulling a sleigh carrying people the wolves would have much much yeah, NOM NOM
Tyler 48:42
also the pack the pack tactics would have kicked in. Oh yeah. There's a great does a really great Planet Earth chase scene with a wolf chasing like caribou.
Misha 48:51
So sad. The little baby caribou just lies down that one.
Tyler 48:55
Yeah, but it's like, Wait, was it that one? It's
Misha 48:58
like Oops. Oh, no, I cannot run this wolf. And it lives down in DUMBO.
Tyler 49:02
I don't think no, because this one it was like a massive chase scene. And it's like, if the wolf doesn't like catch soon, like the wolf can go forever. But the caribou can also go very far and is faster back? Yeah, like over the average.
Misha 49:19
Wolves need to slow down. It's like you know when in video games. I don't play video games now. But when you can run only for a little bit. You're like No, no, no character automatically slows down and then goes real. So that's wolves. Yeah.
Tyler 49:33
And I don't remember that word. I think that like the caribou ended up tripping or something in the wolf caught up. I can't remember. But I think it was a baby caribou like it was a calf like a young lad down. Yeah.
Misha 49:42
It was. I'm thinking we're talking about the same thing and I think it may have tripped the Wilson got like, caught up a little bit and then it just lied down because it was like, Ah, shucks, no,
Tyler 49:53
I try my best. I feel sad about those things, but it's also like this are cool. But I
Misha 50:01
know I can't watch nature documentaries because I always end up sobbing. And then just usually cry about how I wish every one was vegetarian. Yeah,
Tyler 50:14
there's one. There's one clip. Folks. Sorry. We'll get back as at some point soon. There's one clip of like a Jaguar adopts a baby monkey. And it's really sweet. But you're like, that never happens. Never happens. That Jack that sorry, not Jaguar. That leopard killed the entire monkey family, including the mom. And then there's one monkey. And it's like, oh, cool. Now I've got a toy. It's like, yeah, animal friendships for later. Animal friendships don't often. Anyway, back to business.
Misha 50:47
Do you want more for fact?
Tyler 50:49
Sure.
Misha 50:50
Better about wolves.
50:51
Sure. Yeah.
Misha 50:52
I love wolves. I love to worlds. So there are primarily two species of wolves. There's some like debate over if there's a third species, what are subspecies some yada yada, but generally accepted that there are two species of wolves, gray wolf, Grey Wolf wolves, which is the one that's the most predominant throughout the world. And then there are red wolves, which are only found in the coastal region of North Carolina. So like really small geographic range. In the United States, wolves only occupy five to 8% of their original range. Yeah, which is really sad. Hunting is a huge problem, not just here, but everywhere. So actually, they're critical. gray wolves are critically endangered. And in Scandinavia, they're critically endangered, like specifically in that region. And those dumb fucks open up hunting on and off and this just like, I hate humans so much. And so please don't hunt wolves. They're really important predator species and keystone species for our ecology. They're awesome. I don't know what the fuck is up with Disney and they're anti wolf propaganda just like they're anti bear propaganda. I hate all of this. Can we just like, appreciate predators, because they're incredibly important for our ecosystems. Also, we're predators and we're the worst of them all.
Tyler 52:16
Yeah, so are they critically endangered everywhere they are because there's some like debate about
Misha 52:24
category while they're critically endangered creatures pockets. Yeah, yeah. And yeah,
Tyler 52:31
because some places they've been like reintroduced and like are doing a bit better. But in other places is still a problem. Yeah. Yeah. Disney has a wolf. Wolf demonization problem for sure.
Misha 52:42
Yeah, already in the beasts. We saw that. Also,
Tyler 52:45
this is this is not a perfect but gray wolves is also the name of a ultra nationalist political organization in Turkey. Oh, how about that?
Misha 52:56
Okay, gang.
Tyler 52:59
Thanks for joining us for the perfect segment. It was it was really lovely. As always, is there more later that I can look forward to or you
Misha 53:08
think so. You should shed
Tyler 53:11
side kicks. Wolf turds. Go eat some wolf turds. Gladly. Oh
Misha 53:17
my god. I see so many coyote turds on my walks with Simon everywhere we go. You can tell the difference because they're full of fur. Yeah, that's not normal dog poo.
Tyler 53:29
So what do we think about a score for the side kicks? Christoph sin and Olof.
Misha 53:36
I would like to say something about all off. Okay. Why? Okay, I get that. There's comedic characters. Yep. comedic relief side kicks. Right. I understand that kids for some reason need that they don't. But Disney thinks they do. Why? Make a character annoying and ugly. Just pick one or the other.
Tyler 54:07
I don't think he's annoying or ugly.
Misha 54:09
I think you are wrong. He is annoying and ugly. I don't actually think I'd say the first time I watched Rosen. I hated all off so much. And I was like, I'm walking away. I hate Olaf. And this time he grew on me a little bit.
Tyler 54:30
Yeah, I don't think he's, I mean, he's dopey looking, but I don't think he's ugly and too judgmental. No, he's a snowman so
Misha 54:39
what was that? No snowman looks like that. No snow person looks like that. What kind of why would those kids make a snowman like that? Why would she do that with
Tyler 54:50
her magic cuz they were like five Exactly.
Misha 54:52
So would you be she's fine ball.
Tyler 54:57
I don't know. He doesn't look as cool as frosty does frosty by the way. A fucking cool chills
Misha 55:04
I just don't think I like the look of all laugh
Tyler 55:10
well it's like I don't know why they gave them teeth I don't think he's that ugly he's not as bad as like the fucking like dopey dwarf or whatever the fucking the seven doors what one of those the dopey whichever the stoop the stupid door I think looks like like awful looking II
Misha 55:31
think oh, it looks awful
Tyler 55:35
it wasn't to squat alert he there's way too much of him and he's very obnoxious but there's not that much of a menace he's he's never gets to the point of being extremely. Okay.
Misha 55:44
I didn't say it's obnoxious. I never said that you said that.
Tyler 55:50
I don't think he's I don't think he's obnoxious at all in this movie.
Misha 55:52
I said he's started to grow on me like when he said grabbed my butt because it's like lower half was running away. I chuckled. I thought there was an okay amount of him. But he's still ugly.
Tyler 56:04
I still love. I still love when he's like, oh, like I'm in paled. I mean, I think you're being too like locust or whatever. I think you're judging him by judging animation. I'm looking at his his warmth and the way the judging animation we're judging side kicks,
Misha 56:21
understand that you're being is how they're animated. All
Tyler 56:26
right. Well, I think we'll have to agree to disagree. I don't think he's as gross as you think he is.
Misha 56:31
I roll.
Tyler 56:34
I think he's sweet. He's got he's
Misha 56:37
most heated debates. We usually are on the same page about things.
Tyler 56:40
Yeah, usually. Yeah. This is also not a debate. You're saying you're wrong. And I'm saying, well, let's agree to disagree. You're being too judgmental, and you're saying you're wrong. You're an idiot. So that's, I mean, that's actually how most of our teammates are. I mean, I'm willing to here's the thing I don't I'm not there. Okay. Actually, though. Yeah, like as a group there. Okay. I don't think so. Don't think Olaf is amazing. He's not the the home run that Disney probably thought he was going to be. But I think he's okay. And magic is cool. Sen is cool. I likes Fen. Kristof is a bit boring, I think but he's like, okay, all right. So I mean, I don't know what are you thinking? Like? Four or five? Somewhere in the middle?
Misha 57:22
Whoa, that's lower than I was.
Tyler 57:24
Just okay. I don't think there's like anything really that was gonna
Misha 57:28
go on the good side of Okay. Which in my book is a six.
Tyler 57:32
I'm fine with a six I'm fine with a six.
Misha 57:35
Do you think that's too high?
Tyler 57:36
No, I think a seven would be too high. I think a six is okay.
Misha 57:40
You're right I think a five is fair because but maybe you're too close to his seven
Tyler 57:44
maybe a five is that is true.
Misha 57:50
In case people don't know how the numbers go, I
Tyler 57:52
think six is okay. But five also is I mean, Olaf is like he is like plot was important but he didn't have to be it's a little bit like yeah and there I do actually like the more I think about I do like that he like randomly popped up in the woods and like he popped up because Elsa, like making
Misha 58:12
his little magical like, area with the icicles and he's like hello, I live here. Wait, what? And I like how you know when they when Anna and Sven and Kristoff are going through the woods and they're just like, Whoa, look at all how beautiful it is. And he's like, hello, I basically decorate Yeah, he's like, oh, and he's just like they're
Tyler 58:39
just there because I guess he just popped up in the magical woods now because Elsa like I mean a manifestation of his own thing doing his own thing. I liked how they're laying in the woods. Oh, I'll keep a low profile and he's like got it and then you hear off like a red
Misha 58:55
screen screaming screaming it's
Tyler 58:56
great. I loved his lip. I mean it's kind of a dumb so I like his little song about like, this summer of the summer and how like, oh how hilariously like obtuse it was like I want to sunbathe. Yeah, it's quite funny I think so
Misha 59:10
I actually me too so that's one thing I okay six kind of liked a lot.
Tyler 59:16
I was surprised that you're coming around to my size said he grew on
Misha 59:20
me know his looks, but I liked his whole shtick.
Tyler 59:22
Okay, all right. Well, I just didn't like the way
Misha 59:26
look. It's fine and he was kind of annoying but I
Tyler 59:30
yeah oh, just wait till frozen to me. Wait till frozen to God. Cmo TMO what is too much off? Too much. Oh, God. So okay, I think six. I think six. I'm coming around to it. Okay, it was way too low. I was being a bit grumpy. Yeah. Okay, so section sizing
Misha 59:53
since I'm the one saying he's ugly and you're yelling at me for being luckiest. Yeah,
Tyler 59:57
I mean, I but I I was pivoting too low because I think I'm being too harsh on Christoph, to be honest because Christophe is like out of the three of them the most important one, and I think he's the blandest. So yeah, he is bland. I don't know what I'm saying, are often bland. He's like, he's like, Yeah, big dumb. Villain, or do you want to jump back to animation?
Misha 1:00:20
No, let's keep going with the characters villain.
Tyler 1:00:22
Okay, I love this. I love it. I love it. villain is Hans. The villain is Hans.
Misha 1:00:30
Which was confusing because I thought they were setting up that setting it up that weasel town guy would be the villain.
Tyler 1:00:38
He's a side villain. I think they're there and they're not working together. It seems they're not working together. Well,
Misha 1:00:43
yeah. It's just like, there's a bunch. Yeah, he's just a character. Who's
Tyler 1:00:48
there? Just a couple of nasty guys. Yeah. What did you think of the twist?
Misha 1:00:53
I don't know. I? I mean, you kind of saw it coming. Because why would they introduce Christoph? In a kid's it's not like a rom com where it's confusing.
Tyler 1:01:06
Yeah, love triangles don't often happen in a kid's movie. Yeah, exactly. Right. Yeah.
Misha 1:01:11
Because they would never make it where it's like, she's torn between two men who are both equally nice and good. Like, that's not how kids movies work. So, um,
Tyler 1:01:23
but it was also like, I mean, it was a little interesting to mess with the tropes a little bit of like, prince charming prince charming is actually a slime ball. It's not the first like reinbolt prints. Like Aladdin was filled with slimy royalty coming in suitors for Princess Jasmine, but
Misha 1:01:41
Right, right. But she wasn't interested in any of them. And this is the first time and it
Tyler 1:01:46
was interesting that it came so late in the story to like, I feel like in an older Disney movie we would have hit we would have found out he was bad. In an aside with his before she like with his henchmen, he would have pulled like a conversation with like, yeah, she's falling for my for my trap, just to make sure that people weren't confused and started like, like, you can Chubs for the bad guy or whatever. Yeah, I don't know. But he's a bit boring. And like, his reason, like his reason is just like, I mean, I guess it's a little interesting. He's like 13th in line and was like scheming to find out a way to like, get glory for himself. So what do we think about a score for Senor Hans? I mean, I think he's a bit he's a bit
Misha 1:02:33
bullish. Yeah. Because he's supposed to be just like, Oh, I'm charming. And then oh, I'm not. I'm like, a baddie. Yeah. So just
Tyler 1:02:40
kind of, and his motivation is like, kind of, I mean, somewhere in the middle, maybe, I don't know, like, a five on a four. So it's, I guess another problem is like he he's not because of the way they frame it. And I think it's this is probably a positive of the movie. Like, it's all about, like the struggle between the sisters. So he and he's pretending to be good for most of the movies. So the movie isn't like, driven by a bad guys plot, which is nice. Right? Interesting. But yeah, that also makes him kind of a black character. So
Misha 1:03:12
four because or less even a three. Yeah, he doesn't really add much. Yeah, I would go as low as three. I
Tyler 1:03:21
think three sounds good for good old Hans. Yeah. All right. Well, and henchmen he doesn't really have a henchman list. We want to count. The other bad guy, the other guy who's like conniving and trying to like they're not working together. And that's he's not his hands together. It's not a henchman. Yeah. Okay.
Misha 1:03:42
Okay, yeah. Great. All right.
Tyler 1:03:46
Do we want to do strong female lead or animation
Misha 1:03:48
because it's part of like the characters?
Tyler 1:03:51
I mean, I don't we kind of like we kind of intimated this earlier, but this movie is like got a pretty like strong female lead and another very strong female lead who's like not the protagonist but but super strong. She's the queen also is the queen. She's pushing along like she's the the plot driver basically, right?
Misha 1:04:16
I mean,
Tyler 1:04:18
in in the end like the the boys are, right? I mean, they're there and like the the suitor type attitude that you know, the princesses need to marry somebody. Attitude is still like in the background, but it's not what's driving the plot. It's not the motivation of the girls. Really, right. It's the women.
Misha 1:04:38
Even from the beginning. Anna isn't like I have to go. Right? She's not going to find Elsa because of any romantic interest. She wants to help her sister. Yeah, yeah, the entire place about them. Yeah, there's
Tyler 1:04:54
like the party and her like the twitterpated craziness at the party, but then after that, it's like I need to make sure else's okay. Yeah. And yeah, so I mean, I think this movie's I don't know, maybe like it. Maybe a nine. Yeah, I think higher. That's what I'm trying
Misha 1:05:11
to figure out if it should get a 10. Yeah.
Tyler 1:05:16
So 10 was Mirabelle, right. Yeah. And your bill was like a solid 10. Yeah. And abuela to abuela. Obviously, like, was factored into that. Nine was like brave also very, very,
Misha 1:05:27
the reason she did that is because some of the stuff was happening to her rather than her driving. Yeah. And yeah, and it's like,
Tyler 1:05:37
her and her mom, but it's also still like a kingdom where like, Meredith is getting married off to a suitor.
Misha 1:05:44
And what I like about this is that Elsa is like, oh, fuck, no, I'm not marrying anybody. That's like, doesn't come came up once. Where when Hans is like, oh, yeah, no one can get through to Elsa. Great. She's let her just be queen. Yeah,
Tyler 1:05:59
according to apparently a lot of like, conservatives were pissed off. Like, how dare you put a lesbian in this movie? Or whatever? Okay,
Misha 1:06:08
that's yeah. Okay, if conservatives hate it, I like it more.
Tyler 1:06:14
Yeah, it's like that. It's, if I mean, if anything, it's like, it's classic Disney not not going far enough by having like, interesting LGBT, q plus characters in their movies. Like, if anything, if anything, it's like, maybe a it's like, you want a chocolate milkshake, but you're just getting sprinkles of like, chocolate sprinkles on your milkshake type thing, but I think maybe 10 Yeah, it's better than rave. It's yeah, I
Misha 1:06:41
do, too. I think it'd be 10. Cool. Yeah, it
Tyler 1:06:44
is deserve it. Nice. Okay. Also, the nice thing is like the, the I mean, there was a king before, but like the the societal system behind them is also made sure. Like, women first too, which is nice. I mean, it's a traditional society. And I feel like we get more into that and frozen to I can't remember. But, but it's nice to like, it's not just too strong ladies in a backward system. It's like, they're in charge, basically. Which is nice. Right? Yeah. Cool. All right. Well, let's jump back to animation. Okay, when it came out, and we can go back unless you want to really quickly do bipoc representation because it's going to be a bit of
Misha 1:07:22
we can. It's a one. Yeah. One of the trails was played by a black actor, a woman. But she was barely in it. Everybody's white. Yeah, I get that it takes place in Scandinavia. But if we're including indigenous representation, which is in the eye of bipoc is fucking one. Right? Like,
Tyler 1:07:48
you haven't seen Frozen two right? Now. So I mean, this isn't a I guess a big spoiler, but like, people get really angry about one character in that who's of color. And people were like, What the hell's a black person doing it's it's this fantasy Scandinavia. And it's like, right, it's like not even a real fucking place. So also, oh, yeah, people. All you people think that Jesus was white, and nobody batted an eye. But you put one black person in Scandinavia never loses their minds.
Misha 1:08:21
Yeah. Yay. Right. Um,
Tyler 1:08:23
anyway. One for bipoc animation. So when this movie came out, I imagined it was cooler than it may be looks now. I mean, it still looks pretty good. But there are some parts that maybe didn't aged super well, some some of the some of the ice effects. The whole ice Fortress of Solitude looked a little bit. Not great. I think it didn't age quite well. Yeah.
Misha 1:08:46
Yes, it did not. It felt the fortress itself was my least favorite part. And I think they were like, Oh, look at like, how cool we can make this and it just felt kind of forced in there. And the CGI felt more like CGI where the rest of it looked like animation. And they're like, yeah, it just was like almost like the Doritos scene from
Tyler 1:09:15
Fantasia 2000 2003. It's like, oh, yeah, this is taking me out. It's so digital looking. Yeah. There's a couple other parts were like Elsa. Or and I think it was when Elsa first ran away across the frozen fjord. She that looked a bit wonky to there just a couple of scenes that looked really wonky. But then there are a couple other scenes that looked really really good. Sorry, good. Yeah.
Misha 1:09:40
I want to talk about another wonky scene. So at the coronation, the dancing dresses looked like they were made out of paper like construction paper. They were just flat and perfectly stiff. And even when Anna was moving, her dress just looked like a paper of like a cone. And there was no texture. There was no movement and it was supposed to be fabric and even weasel tins, like, their uniforms or suits or whatever. Everything just looked strangely flat very flat. Other times later when and it was like climbing the mountain and they had like close ups on her you could see like it was so well done. So why was it it was so shockingly different. I wonder
Tyler 1:10:27
if they were if they were going for like, everything is staid and rigid, and
Misha 1:10:35
it didn't even have texture though. Like paper and
Tyler 1:10:39
parts before that too. Like for example, it stood out to me like Ana's morning dress which her after the parents die in the funeral and she's trying to talk one last time trying to talk to Elsa the dress looked like super beautiful and like all the design of it was really a lot of the design of the costumes were really nice looking I thought like bringing Scandinavia in but also like it's still like fantasyland but yeah I agree with that part. I thought the beginning was really beautiful like the way that they faded oh the ice yeah they faded from the like the blue to like a little bit of like the sunset peeking in and then the blade going down it was really cool.
Misha 1:11:18
Yeah, that was beautiful.
Tyler 1:11:21
I thought all off was although he may be was ugly was animated interestingly like the Pete different like also all the all the snow and ice like not actually not the ice. The ice spells looked a little wonky sometimes. But the snow animation and Olaf along with that all looked pretty good. I think the big snow monster was cool, but he looked a little too ice creamy,
Misha 1:11:43
I thought but one of the things that really bothered me with animation was during let it go. You have this incredibly powerful emotional song and else's face her IT DID NOT emote that level of emotion. Yeah. And it really bothered me. Because it felt like it was a music video. Like Idina Menzel singing over this cartoon not wicked challenger. Oh my God, what did he say?
Tyler 1:12:24
Adele Dazeem wickedly talented. I mean yeah,
Misha 1:12:32
he was separate from the character and it wasn't Elsa singing and it was if they did not know how to make her face expressive
Tyler 1:12:42
Yeah, I wonder if it's because they've trapped themselves in this like weird sort of Neo Disney Renaissance look with the big eyes and the weird noses in a way that like they look very Disney and and expressive if they're happy but they have like not very it's very hard to be like average Yeah, no.
Misha 1:13:02
I thought Anna looked okay Anna they enemy because the whole time she has different like they went into it where she has sort of different emotions from the start. And I really was bothered because I was like okay, I
Tyler 1:13:17
yeah, it just it's like it's like basically
Misha 1:13:19
yeah, powerful song right?
Tyler 1:13:23
She was angry she doesn't look like sad yeah nothing
Misha 1:13:26
she doesn't look like she's feeling relief and that she's tapping into her power nothing yeah flat effect like
Tyler 1:13:35
yeah my content the voice is so powerful so it's that's
Misha 1:13:39
what it is if it wasn't that song fine if it was just kind of like if the song fell flat fine but yeah the two together it didn't the animation they blew it
Tyler 1:13:51
yeah what else with animation I thought I mean for them I think for the most part it is good they're just some the the wonky parts are just really noticeable because I think the rest of it is really good. Yeah. Like the the trolls I think they're superfluous but the trolls look really good the animation of movement in most places fan looked really good yeah all the like the the end storm and the the the castle turning into ice looked really cool. The town the town covered in snow. Yeah, but But yeah, like most part, but
Misha 1:14:31
the wonky parts were wonky.
Tyler 1:14:33
stood out. Yeah, yeah. Just didn't quite aged super well. So what do we think do we think like solid but just not capital G good. Like maybe like a six or seven or
Misha 1:14:46
I was thinking a six? Okay, because the parts that don't work are so noticeable. Yeah. And we've
Tyler 1:14:53
got some really quickly we
Misha 1:14:54
know they could have done it. Like that's the thing. They had the ability to do it and I don't know why It turned out the way it did.
Tyler 1:15:01
Yeah. Yeah. Okay six sounds good to me. All right music and sound I
Misha 1:15:07
also want to say brave got a seven and it came out the year before. And I know we had talked about you know what some of the problems with brave but I think brave was better than this.
Tyler 1:15:18
I think brave looks better. Yeah. I think rave looked a lot better. I got a seven so, yeah. Okay. Music and sound. So yeah, first off, let's just the, the the quick thing out of the way. I think the score is quite strong. It's not the best score I've ever heard. But it does its job. It's solid. It does the nice like, tonal shifts from like the kids playing to seriousness very quick to, to sadness to like, all these emotions that it hits those those parts really well. The music, the music the big the big thing this movie is famous for. Yeah,
Misha 1:15:51
this is okay, so this is like a full musical this like the way it moves story along how often songs were happening. This felt like a Broadway musical type of musical it's not a movie with music. Like the whole point of this was okay, we're making
Tyler 1:16:08
this is a show that was showtunes and like the the scoring of the composition of the songs is very broad way like which I think in some cases is super strong and some cases I've just really hated it. Like I mean I'm not like the biggest Broadway expert or fan but like sometimes Broadway really knocks it out of the park. I think Do you want to build a snowman is a really great song I think let it go is great except sorry
Misha 1:16:35
I was thinking let's build a snowman we can make him if we try we can name a bob we can say wolf so man
Tyler 1:16:45
it's the way they frame it as like part of the montage to it starts with this cute kid song and turns into an A sad and alone and they just it's really nice the way that that song
Misha 1:16:56
I love that that was one of my that I think I liked more than let it go
Tyler 1:17:02
I think I do too. Here's the thing with Let it go Let it go is like yeah, go ahead.
Misha 1:17:07
Okay, I was gonna say Let It Go is really powerful it has real it's like the highs of Let It Go are higher than the highs of let's build a snowman.
Tyler 1:17:18
But you want to build a snowman
Misha 1:17:21
Sorry, do you want to build a snowman? Yeah, but the lows have let it go. Really? I disliked certain parts of that song that I feel like I was like am I supposed to not like I don't know I felt bad because it's like it's
Tyler 1:17:41
such a clash it's like such a new classic Yeah, but here's your my two parts that I really hate and that song if I can I'll I'll follow I'll follow I'll fall on the sword and then you can back away from it if you want the beginning piano crinkle tinkle it sounds like a fucking like Christian rock song and I really fucking hate that that beginning like piano thing. I also hate the bridge Okay, yeah bridge.
Misha 1:18:06
Me too.
Tyler 1:18:08
But I think I think the lyrics are great Dina Manzo fucking kills it it's like
Misha 1:18:14
she does that's what I'm saying. Like the highs are so high the good parts of it where I'm just like, oh, this doesn't seem to fit I don't like okay, I said you definitely were like I don't like the bridge now I'm getting myself I'm getting mixed up when she says the part where it goes The cold never bothered me any way it just like
Tyler 1:18:38
Oh, I love that part.
Misha 1:18:39
I it didn't to me I was confused because it
Tyler 1:18:43
get because it's such an ear worm it's like stuck in my head like constantly I always go like shop out of them.
Misha 1:18:49
But it doesn't sound like it fits with the other parts of the song like it's in there a little bit and it just to me it was a little jarring and I didn't like that like it. I don't like when songs are totally very different from itself right so you have this I don't know if I'm explaining this correctly. And I think that's part of why didn't like the songs and condo because you have it just sounds like you took different songs and smush them together into this one song and I maybe I get confused. I don't know. I'm like, have expectations for what the rest of the song will sound like and then it sounds very different. And I didn't like that about let it go. And what I liked about do you want to build a snowman? It's just it's like it sounds like one song. Yeah,
Tyler 1:19:44
yeah. I think that's just I mean, I guess kind of like the the it's almost like the Broadway spectacle of it. It's like there's some something going on on stage and like that's like the song changes or something. Is
Misha 1:19:59
it What happened and let it go there wasn't anything changing she was just doing her one thing
Tyler 1:20:04
is what the bridge is what the part that I'm talking about that definitely seems very show Tuni to me I also really hate love as an open door I think that's really just
Misha 1:20:19
oh so in that song she goes we they say we finish each other's sandwiches That's a fucking line from Arrested Development that they stole
Tyler 1:20:30
Yeah
Misha 1:20:32
you can't that's like such a specific line. Yeah,
Tyler 1:20:38
so there's the music like when when when that song starts it's I guess it's okay where it finally goes I guess but when it starts with like the the drums like the fucking what are those called like the tom toms or something?
Misha 1:20:52
I thought that was like
Tyler 1:20:55
bongos like it's like an acoustic guitar
Misha 1:20:58
it sounded like bongos and I was like this doesn't make sense. Really. It
Tyler 1:21:01
was really bad at the same thing. I think when I first watched the movie, I didn't like it and I rewatched the and then I watched it again last night and then I rewatched the beginning today so I've seen the first half like three times now. I didn't like Anna's like for the first time in forever song her like sort of like quote unquote I want song I guess like when she's getting to see your sister again and like the castles opening up I didn't really like it because I thought it was too cheesy but like the third time I liked it more I think it's nice I think it's nice it gives like Kristen Kristen Bell her her moment to really shine as well. Great singer by the way did not know that. She was I didn't
Misha 1:21:43
know she I looked up who the singer is and I was surprised that it was Kristen Bell she is really good at singing. Yeah, I mean I'm sure everybody else knew
Tyler 1:21:52
I guess a lot of people knew Yeah. They like picked her for this because they knew about it somehow. I also liked we already talked about this but I loved
Misha 1:22:00
in summer.
Tyler 1:22:01
Oh love song
Misha 1:22:02
Love Song where he's like dreaming about being in warm weather. It was really kind of sweet and sweet song was good it like actually felt like a cute Muse like Broadway musical song that? I don't know. I really liked
Tyler 1:22:18
that's weird. That's interesting, because that song for example, tonally didn't
Misha 1:22:22
Yeah, but for me that made sense. Because it's like, oh laughs imagination about what summertime would be like, and I thought that worked. Yeah, because he's a great I think I think it worked. And it was it was a it was a pleasant sounding song.
Tyler 1:22:39
Yeah, so what do we oh sorry, actually before scoring the end you know, on the one hand so the end credits has Demi Lovato doing a pop beer version of Let It Go part of me at least it's a song from no here's the Yeah that's exactly where I was about to go this like on the one hand I I would have just preferred to hear it demons ELLs version again, but on the other hand, it's like I'm glad they did that instead of some like weird stupid and credit song
Misha 1:23:09
in the credits where they do a whole new world and it's the it's a it they're different singers and it's pot right they it's like kind of a classic thing like
Tyler 1:23:17
that then I like that because that a call back to like the Disney Renaissance. It's also just like, hey, we already have this solid song. Let's do it again. Instead of getting like Robbie Williams in dildo. Baggins to like sing a duet about like British food or whatever.
Misha 1:23:31
And yeah, right.
Tyler 1:23:35
Who does the song The troll song? Yeah, he's
Misha 1:23:40
a bit of a fixer upper. You didn't like that? I thought it was cute. Okay, I liked it. I thought it was an okay song. Okay, I like this. I
Tyler 1:23:47
just we didn't need to troll you don't need the trolls also I just don't I just like an extra day just have this like nerve again, like family that is loving but very rude and judgmental. It's probably because I live in I live in Turkey but I just really have a sensitive spot when it comes to those things like Oh, I love him but he's fat and he's got buck teeth and like yeah,
Misha 1:24:12
I'm not saying their knees right and he stinks in this and that. Okay, that besides that that's part of the story that they're jerks, but But I liked the song. Yeah, yeah, it's okay. Anyway, overall,
Tyler 1:24:26
I think the music is pretty good in this movie. I do to think of a couple of stink stink points stink stink points. I said standpoints stink points, and really explode those plosives into the microphone. Apologies listeners. And yeah, I don't know. What do you think? Like, I think it should be pretty high. Right, but not perfect.
Misha 1:24:47
I think it should be high. I'm like an eight. That feels really high.
Tyler 1:24:55
It's pretty high. Yeah.
Misha 1:24:56
I think it should be a seven
Tyler 1:24:59
Oh, ooh, continuing our stream. Yes. I mean, to be fair, it isn't. It is.
Misha 1:25:07
Mostly okay.
Tyler 1:25:09
I think it's mostly
Misha 1:25:11
and then there's some good points. You think it's mostly good with a few low points? I
Tyler 1:25:16
think it's mostly good. Like, okay, do you want to build a snowman? So the, I think the ice collecting song is like, Okay, we totally forgot to talk about the opening song. The opening song is good. All right. Okay. Okay, let's go up to an eight. And I like how they did have I mean, we say what you want to buy, like, Scandinavian treatment of Sami people or whatever, but I do like how they brought the Sami tradition of of due to singing into it, which becomes a much bigger thing in the second movie. Again, spoiler alert, but Oh, not necessarily in a good way, as far as I remember. But anyway, we'll get to there. Okay. I think an eight I think it kind of deserves a bit better than Frank and Finding Dory and Finding Nemo.
Misha 1:26:00
You're absolutely right. I didn't look at those. It definitely deserves at eight and that the same as Frankenweenie.
Tyler 1:26:09
But also it's like, it's it's tying with? Yeah, it's, it's tying with Cinderella and Aladdin and Fantasia 2000. I think it's, I think that makes sense. I mean, Aladdin might be Aladdin might be like, point one or something, but I think okay. Yeah, I mean, okay. Fun Factor.
Misha 1:26:31
I thought this was kind of fun. I thought parts of it are fun, but,
Tyler 1:26:36
but also kind of, it's not fun. Also, like buting the beast and Encanto this movie is like deeply troubled at its core.
Misha 1:26:43
Right? When you have a child you lock away. That's not fun.
Tyler 1:26:48
And the other child who you like, don't you also have Anna's getting abused? Because she's like, not allowed to like
Misha 1:26:54
she just alone. I don't know why she can't see any friends.
Tyler 1:26:57
She's not told. Yeah, the castle is closed because of Elsa. It's not else's fault. But that means Anna can't see anybody and, like, Isn't told what's going on. Right? It is a bit upsetting. It's very upsetting, actually, when you really think about it, but the movie is like maybe because of like Olaf and sand and like, you know, when you bring kooky characters in it like lightens up the mood. The bad guys like also just stupid so maybe characters
Misha 1:27:21
it like suffered from too many characters. Yeah. Yeah, I mean,
Tyler 1:27:27
I think it's fun. It's just it's just, it's just not super fun.
Misha 1:27:31
Yeah. Yeah, I think it's fun enough.
Tyler 1:27:35
So everything like like a five. Tyler I was gonna say five. Okay, let's go five them. Wow. Oh, wow. Wow. Does that sound right?
Misha 1:27:46
It loses a couple of points for the child abuse for sure. It
Tyler 1:27:50
loses couple points for the child abuse and suddenly face. Now it doesn't lose for that. Sorry.
Misha 1:28:01
I thought authoritative decision maker here.
Tyler 1:28:04
I just sometimes I gotta shoot your
Misha 1:28:07
son's discord. Never say that to me again. Sometimes
Tyler 1:28:11
you got to shoot your shot. Usually, usually you're like mountain Mutombo blocking the rim. But you took your eyes off the hoop for a second. So I had to shoot my shot. It's a basketball reference. It's not a splooge thing.
Misha 1:28:24
Okay, you could have just ended it's a basketball reference.
Tyler 1:28:31
Okay, so minus two for minus four for for child abuse.
Misha 1:28:37
I think a minus two because it's like a minus two is fine. It's not
Tyler 1:28:44
it's it's luckily,
Misha 1:28:45
it's like coming from a place of protecting everybody. And it's just, it's just misguided. It's not like the stepmother in Cinderella. Yeah. And
Tyler 1:28:58
it's not like beauty derbies where it's like a fight. It's like a pivotal part of the movie. I mean, it is in the beginning, but then it's like they move on from it. So it could have been could have been worse, right? I mean, I want to give it a little bit more, but okay, negative two.
Misha 1:29:13
Okay,
Tyler 1:29:14
I'm here to design effervescence.
Misha 1:29:16
It's effervescent.
Tyler 1:29:17
I think this movie is effervescent. I
Misha 1:29:19
shoot. It's an effervescent movie. They do the ice the magic, the songs. It's really effervescent the magic it like it's really good. This is a good Disney effervescent,
Tyler 1:29:32
this is the good yeah, good like example of a recent shining example what's like what's like? Much like I was gonna say cocoa but cocoa got not a 10 but yeah, I
Misha 1:29:48
don't think I don't think this is a 10 either from toe to No, this is not a 10 I think this actually is less effervescent than Coco.
Tyler 1:30:00
Yeah, okay, so you're okay, so I'm fine with that. But maybe we need a little bit of explanation your reason for not giving Coco like top marks was mainly due to like, music not bringing you there were
Misha 1:30:13
Oh, so where I now I'm thinking visually, right like, what like, holy shit Coco brought me there and animation, right like that's where it gets it. It's a point and with this Yeah, I still think it's less effervescent just a seven not like a lot less just slightly less effervescent, because the music brings it not enough, and the animation brings it not enough and I think it is slightly less effervescent than cocoa just a touch.
Tyler 1:30:48
Okay, so total score
Misha 1:30:50
is probably pretty good. It's okay, a 6363.
Tyler 1:30:54
Okay, so pretty solidly in the top. Middle. It's like a sandwich sandwich between Aladdin and
Misha 1:31:06
Bambi got a 64 a Goofy movie got a 64 It's better than a Latin by a
Tyler 1:31:14
point. Yeah, definitively
Misha 1:31:18
better than Beauty and the Beast. So you know that's surprising to me. But I know where Beauty and the Beast lost all its points. So I mean not surprised. Sure. Yeah, that's pretty good for our rating system. Yeah,
Tyler 1:31:34
not too shabby. Yeah, well folks, thanks for sticking with us and next week we are talking about frozen too.
Misha 1:31:45
So if you can't get enough of this frozen contact come back next week if you can't get enough of it come back anyway
Tyler 1:31:52
anyway, and just sit near the fire roaster toasties if you're too frozen and just pull up a fireplace fireplace but yes, we are so so not cold hearted we are we are warmed through and through by your your your listening to us and spreading the word and channeling people via us and messaging us late at night saying How the fuck did you give this a TEN and if you'd like to get in touch those who haven't or those who have have yet to get the courage to get in touch with the the podcast was on there is [email protected] is our email address. You can get in touch with us there.
Misha 1:32:35
or on Instagram or Twitter, or both at @muchabupod and if you want if you enjoy the show, leave us a rating or review. We love to you know we'd love to get those.
Tyler 1:32:47
Yeah, that's true. So yes, again, thanks, everybody. We really appreciate it and we will see you next time. Bye
Misha 1:32:57
bye