Please excuse the grammatical errors, any other errors you come across, and the general sloppiness of this transcription of Much Abu About Nothing's podcast episode on Atlantis: The Lost Empire! Our episodes are transcribed by a robot and roughly edited by Misha (which takes a long time).
Tyler 00:00
content warning. Although this is a podcast about kids movies, this podcast isn't for kids and may contain content some people find offensive.
Misha 00:21
Welcome to Much Abu About Nothing a podcast where we discuss and rate animated Disney films going in alphabetical order following a rigorous and scientific scoring system based on absolutely nothing. I'm your host Misha,
Tyler 00:36
and I'm your other host Tyler and gang. We it's been a long time well, not since these are being released. But since we've recorded and I missed you, Misha, and I missed all the I missed the fun, silliness.
Misha 00:47
I missed you too, Tyler.
Tyler 00:48
Life finds a way to get in in the middle of things and mess with things but we're back gang and we're ready to talk about Disney's take on Dances with Wolves.
Misha 00:58
And just because can doesn't mean we should but here we are doing it Dances with Wolves.
Tyler 01:05
Well, we'll get into that.
Misha 01:06
Well let's not say doing it like that. We are not ...
Tyler 01:09
We're fucking this movie up. This week, we've got Atlantis, the last empire from 2001 I believe it came out.
Misha 01:20
Yes. And first. Non musical.
Tyler 01:26
Yeah,
Misha 01:27
one after that's like cartoon animated after a whole series of musical ones which we'll get into. But this was like I didn't even actually know this was a Disney movie.
Tyler 01:39
Yeah. Yeah, exactly. I think like, I don't even remember when I first saw it. I don't think I ever saw the whole thing when I was younger. But But yeah, it definitely has a vibe of like the DreamWorks movies that were coming around. I'm like Road to El Dorado. It's the animation. or
Misha 01:58
Yes,
Tyler 01:59
Don Bluth-y like from like Anastasia Don Bluth and adulti looking. Yeah, Disney look to it.
Misha 02:06
Yeah. Anyway,
Tyler 02:08
that music thing we can Yeah, we can get into it. That music thing was intentional. I read.
Misha 02:13
Yeah, I did too. So Tyler, do you want to tell our listeners about just quickly run through our ranking and scoring system?
Tyler 02:23
Sure. Yeah, for those who are maybe new to the program, we've got different categories that we rate these movies on. originality, story, animation, music and sound, protagonist, sidekick villain, henchmen, If there are any, and then we have strong female lead category, bipoc representation slash portrayal, fun factor and then we have like negative points possibly for like it doesn't sit right or positive points for effervescence, that sort of Disney magic quality giving it a total score of...
Misha 02:57
So those are like bonus and like bonus points and like negative opposite of bonus for a possible total score of 110 points.
Tyler 03:11
So we'll see if Atlantis can break into the top tier. I don't want to make any predictions because we'll get into it but I think Atlantis will not score super highly but we'll see.
Misha 03:23
I agree. Do you want me to give the synopsis of the movie?
Tyler 03:27
Yeah, I think I think I think the gang the the Goof Troop, whatever they call themselves are craving the old Misha summary so go for it.
Misha 03:36
Okay, okay, here we go. Because I watched it twice in the last week. And this is what you get. So Atlantis, which is real according to Plato, and it's based This is based on a true story as we all know.
Tyler 03:53
Already off to... Plato did not say it was real, but...
Misha 03:58
okay, Atlantis there was a blue okay, why there was a big tidal wave and then aliens are so you make it it makes it look like aliens have something to do with it. They go under the water. There's a bubble. Like most of Atlanteans die because they don't allow them to join the bubble. The Queen gets sucked up by aliens. Then they're underwater eighty- 800 years ago ish. Fast forward to 1914 you have a boy okay, this boiler room worker slash aspiring adventurer not something linguist errrr.... linguists
Tyler 04:49
He - he is a linguist. He works for the museum. He just got the shit jobs.
Misha 04:54
Like yeah, he's trying to find Atlantis. He doesn't get his grant funding From I'm guessing the Smithsonian because it's in DC.
Tyler 05:03
Could be.
Misha 05:04
So he quits then this wealthy guy who knew his grandfather. Okay. Milo is The Linguist.
Tyler 05:14
Yep.
Misha 05:15
His grandfather was an explorer. Yeah. With a pith helmet,
Tyler 05:20
Pith helmet and everything.
Misha 05:21
We all know what that means. And then he gets funded by this mysterious Yogi who's white Who's rich? And to go to Atlantis with a crew of people who have been on a crew before who found the book.
Tyler 05:42
Yep.
Misha 05:42
Or something. From Atlantis.
Tyler 05:44
Yeah. And they found the book in Iceland, which the main character correctly deduced. And I think they were
Misha 05:50
Well, because they were working with the grandfather. And he told him I think they knew the grandfather.
Misha 05:50
Which is so dumb. He could have just found that out from these jamokes. How did they know it was in Iceland?
Tyler 05:58
Okay. When did the grandfather die? There's only pictures of him as a child?
Tyler 06:07
Yeah.
Misha 06:07
Okay.
Tyler 06:08
They always talk about like, throughout the movie. They're like your grandfather was a good man. I knew him and things like that.
Misha 06:13
But like I thought, right. I don't understand that. Okay. There's a lot I don't understand.
Tyler 06:18
So, definitely huge plotholes in this movie, by the way, in this movie, right.
Misha 06:21
So now I'm gonna fast forward through. They go through underground underwater into Atlantis. Okay, they go through wherever.
Tyler 06:31
Yeah,
Misha 06:32
which I don't even know how they do that. So they find their way into Atlantis. Then at Atlantis. There's, there are people which they weren't expecting. They thought it was just a lost dead civilization. And it would be archaeological ruins but they find living people. The King is dying.
Tyler 06:55
Played by Leonard Nimoy.
Misha 06:57
Yes. Oh, yesterday. While I was babysitting the nephews. My nephews are three and five. We played The Ballad of Bilbo Baggins by performed by Leonard Nimoy from his album on loop for like an hour.
Tyler 07:16
That's a lot.
Misha 07:17
It was really fun.
Tyler 07:19
Only three feet tall. An hour is a lot.
Misha 07:25
Okay. Okay. It was great. Everyone loved it, except my sister who was ready to blow her brains out. Anyway. So okay, Atlantis. There, they are trying to revive their civilization because they're dying, which I don't understand why because it seemed there. She was like, we have to scavenge for food. But then they have this huge feast. That looks totally fine. Yeah, exactly. Like we're dying. But like, everything seems beautiful and fine. They can't read. They're all illiterate. For some reason, they just just stopped reading. And then, even though they're all the same people who are alive for the last 8000 years, which is something that we discover. And then,
Tyler 08:08
like the magic wore off somehow, but that translated to losing the ability to read.
Misha 08:13
I don't understand. But anyway, so they needed Milo to read to them under this underwater and yet swim over to the text of how to revive their culture, or, and then then,
Tyler 08:35
I love that this summary is like tiring you out.
Misha 08:39
Then I'm so confused. I just watched it like, right before we were recording and I watched it last week and I still don't get it. Okay, so then they read it they discover that the power is the heart of Atlantis empowers the people and everything even though they have crystals that are powered and they still have power. But then it turns out the whole crew every single character that's not Atlantean and that's not my low is a mercenary who was funded by Whitmore the friend of the grandfather. They're all baddies. Every single one of them is like, yep, we'll kill this civilization because we want to make money off of this power source. They're all awful. Like and who knows they're going to just sell it to any country. Every one is bad and terrible. So they go to get the power source. Then Kida, who's the princess gets moon blinked, like the Owls of Ga'hoole, gets sucked up,
Tyler 09:42
Whaaat?
Misha 09:43
turns-
Tyler 09:46
the Owls of what?
Misha 09:48
Ga- Ga'hoole?
Tyler 09:49
what is that?
Misha 09:51
There's this movie about owls. They get Moon blinked, and they go Moon blinked and then.
Tyler 09:57
What is this that you're talking about?
Misha 09:59
her eyes. You know when her eyes
Tyler 10:02
yeah, yeah.
Misha 10:04
Before she turns all blue she gets Moon blinked.
Tyler 10:08
Owls of Ga'hoole, never heard of this before,
Misha 10:12
you should watch Owls of Ga'hoole.
Tyler 10:14
Legend of the Guardians, the Owls of Ga'hoole, a 2010 movie. I've never heard of this movie.
Misha 10:20
So there's this thing that happens where they get Moon blinked.
Misha 10:25
Wow,
Misha 10:26
they just- so she gets Moon blinked, like the Owls of Ga'Hoole and get sucked up turns blue like a ghost. And they capture her because it's the most powerful power in all of Earth, except for steel and bolts. lug nuts holding her holding this the most powerful power so all you need to do is have a case made of metal.
Tyler 10:56
It was also unclear to me why she just like walked into the cage.
Misha 11:00
I think like that, because that's when she was Moon blanked. Oh, when she when they caught her.
Tyler 11:08
Yeah, she just like she became she became the blue creature. And then she just like walked past them. And then like the next scene is they put her in the It's like she just placidly...
Misha 11:10
Right? Oh, and glass. Yeah. So glass because there's a glass window why they need that? I don't know. So there's a glass window. Also more glass is more powerful than the most powerful power. So they capture her. And then the city is in danger. And then they're gonna kill everybody except the crew except the villain who's the lieutenant and his lieutenant Hench woman,
Tyler 11:47
Helga,
Misha 11:48
Helga. Um, everyone's like, well, we like Milo Okay, now, so I guess we won't murder everybody. Even though Okay, so then
Tyler 12:02
we're horrible people, but we've never like the Italian dudes like never, like hurt anyone before at least not. Not anyone I knew.
Misha 12:09
We know. Yeah, that's like, okay, they are so like Milo guilts them into not murdering him and Kida and who knows 1000s of other people. So they stay behind? Because they get stuck there. Because then the lieutenant and Helga or whoever, go and steal Kida ghost Kida. Then they stop them. And they return Kida back to the city and then everything's fine. Yeah, the end.
Tyler 12:43
And then Milo stays behind because he and Kida are boning. And the others leave to go back and they meet Mr. Whitmore. Again. The benefactor-
Misha 12:53
Yeah, and they're all rich but I don't know off of what
Tyler 12:56
because because when they were leaving, they took a bunch of gold with them. Like
Misha 13:00
Oh fuck, what?
Tyler 13:02
And the Atlanteans were like cool that.
Misha 13:05
So yeah, so and Mr. Whitmore just was like doo doo doo. Everything's fine. Even though I hired and funded a mercenary expedition to kill off a civilization and then Milo's like thanks for being my friend.
Tyler 13:20
Yeah, it's a little unclear. It's I mean, it seems to me that the movie wants us to think that Mr. Whitmore is not a bad guy that he
Misha 13:27
but he is
Tyler 13:28
he was fulfilling a
Misha 13:29
financing a mercenary trip,
Tyler 13:32
but it's unclear whether I mean it. As far as what the movie says he is doing it to fulfill a promise to Milo's grandfather. He's not
Misha 13:40
Yeah, he's double crossing the grandfather.
Tyler 13:42
But is Whitmore doing that or is it Rourke the the main bad guy? I think it's Rourke that's like doing that. I don't think Whitmore was in on that.
Misha 13:52
How would every single one of those characters be in on it who was part of the Iceland expedition?
Tyler 14:00
Yeah, it's just like because of the it is unclear. But tonally. It makes it seem like Whitmore
Misha 14:06
I know. But I disagree with tone.
Tyler 14:09
Yeah.
Misha 14:09
So listeners. I hope you totally understand this movie now. Oh, okay. So how did Atlantis- Okay, there's more How did Atlantis fall under water? Okay, I'll do a really good job of explaining this.
Tyler 14:23
Go for it.
Misha 14:26
the, the blue power, it was the spirits of the ancestors came together to form a blue crystal, which is their power now of Atlantis. Then it got so powerful because there are so many dead ancestors that they became conscious. What's word? sentient,
Tyler 14:51
sentient,
Misha 14:51
conscious? sentient. Okay. Then the king was like, Oh, this is so powerful. I'm gonna go to war. But the ancestors were like, No, you're not. So we're putting you underwater. But we have to have a chosen one. I don't know why.
Tyler 15:09
To protect that people. Yeah,
Misha 15:12
suck up the queen. But the Queen is Dead forever. I don't know why because Kida was returned.
Tyler 15:20
But the dad did say like, if you don't get her back, she's going to be lost forever.
Misha 15:24
Why?
Tyler 15:25
Because it because... because of the crystal magic. I don't know. It's
Misha 15:30
Why couoldn't the mom come back?
Tyler 15:33
because nobody went to go get her. I don't know.
Misha 15:37
Why does Kida come back? Kida came back with the bracelet that her mother took when she just come back with her mother.
Tyler 15:44
I don't know.
Misha 15:46
What's the statute of limitation on being blue?
Tyler 15:51
I guess a little over 8000 years, I suppose. Yeah, it's a bit. Yeah. Like we'll Yeah, like let's just let's jump into the story. Right. Now we can come back to reality. The story is, rip, Roarin fun, but it doesn't make a lot of sense. In many places. It's
Misha 16:09
They added so many little things that I just was like, Okay, this is what it could have been. They're looking for Atlantis, they get double crossed by somebody who's doesn't care about the civilization and wants to steal their power. It could have just been magic power. Right. And that's it. But I don't understand. They like, tried to create a reason why Atlantis would have been submerged.
Tyler 16:33
Yeah.
Misha 16:35
But it was way too complicated. So that turned into like, half of the movie that no one understands.
Tyler 16:42
Yeah, it's a really vague like hubris mixed with, like maybe bad decisions mixed with magic ancestors. And magic crystal being angry. And yeah, it's all a mess. Plato, I mean, Plato's version, which was fictional, and he made it up. That's my opinion on Atlantis, by the way, everyone, hot take! Was that the Atlantean-
Misha 17:08
What's that place in the Bahamas? Isn't that just like, they found Atlantis and then brought it to the surface? Because now you can go water sliding past sharks. That's like,
Tyler 17:17
is that like a Club Med type place?
Misha 17:19
Yeah, I think so. I've never been.
Tyler 17:25
Yeah, the Atlanteans were like a naval force that attacked the... It was like another one of his dumb allegories, but it was like they were attacking the like Athens utopia and Athens and something. I forget all the details. But basically, they were stupid. And the Gods got angry at them. Basically, that they were like an attacking force attacking Athens. And they were they were dumb because they didn't follow the philosopher king model or whatever. That's all I remember. And that's probably
Misha 17:55
They were punished.
Tyler 17:56
They were punished by the gods. Yeah. So it was not like this.
Misha 18:00
That's kind of similar.
Tyler 18:02
Yeah, there's a little bit of that. Yes. Yeah.
Misha 18:05
Like the ancestors are the gods. And they were punished because Leonard Nimoy wanted to go to war.
Tyler 18:12
Yeah.
Misha 18:13
I guess I just don't understand the power source thing.
Tyler 18:16
It's like
Misha 18:16
it's almo-.
Tyler 18:17
Yeah, it's just this heart of Atlantis. It's I guess the magic of the ancestors always there. But it's a bit unclear.
Misha 18:23
But why would anybody be chosen like? Well, they didn't have to steal Kida. She didn't have to turn blue and get moon blinked at all.
Tyler 18:32
Yeah, I mean, she just did. It seems like the magic took over. And she didn't really have a choice in the matter. But it's still Yeah, it's a bit it's a bit unclear. Yeah. So other than the very often, like, unclear moments and plot holes, where things just happen. What did you think of the story?
Misha 18:54
So I actually I don't know if it's because I love the idea of like this lost city of Atlantis, like before this movie, I just think that's like a really charming thing to think of. Right? Like, and I like the idea of the city being underwater. And then people living down they're evolving into which I was kind of disappointed by this. I want them to be more water creatures, right? Like, because they're underwater, kind of why did they have atmosphere with clouds and stuff? In this movie?
Tyler 19:28
Because magic.
Misha 19:30
Oh, and what were all those animals?
Tyler 19:33
Dinosaurs For some reason, even though they there was some straight up dinosaurs. There was some dinosaurs and then there's like this weird Panther with like six eyes like a weird like spider Panther.
Misha 19:45
Yeah, I just okay, like animals don't evolve in 8000 years to be totally different.
Tyler 19:51
Yeah, this is according to the timeline of this movie, which isn't the same as Plato's. But according to this timeline, They would have sunk when like the Neolithic Revolution was happening when like agriculture started we started domesticating pigs and stuff. So there were no no no fucking dinosaurs and no six eyed Panthers roaming around.
Misha 20:13
That's what I'm saying
Tyler 20:14
as far as I know. Yeah, it's a bit. I mean, just just magic. I mean, but this is one. This is one frustrating thing about like, a lot of movies that bring magic into it. And like a lot of fantasy authors like Brandon Sanderson, for example,
Misha 20:27
There are no rules.
Tyler 20:28
Yeah, I get really pissed when they're like, no rules, and then like, anything can happen.
Misha 20:33
Yeah.
Tyler 20:34
So it kind of Yeah, it kind of cheapens it like if you don't know what magic can do and what the capabilities are, and what the weaknesses are, then,
Misha 20:41
yes.
Tyler 20:42
It's always going to be
Misha 20:43
like, there weakness is, steel and glass.
Tyler 20:46
Yeah.
Misha 20:47
And guns?
Tyler 20:48
but it just turns out to be like, yeah, guns. Yeah. But the guns paying off those flying machines and don't really wreck any of them. I didn't see any crashes of those flying machines, like Atlantis has way superior technology, but it's all like this really nebulous magic, and it just ends up being like a like, I was about to say, like a deus ex machina, like, things are solved because magic and I don't know, it's a little it deflates what the story could have been.
Tyler 21:17
I also, I mean, on the one hand, I found the story entertaining, but also just a bit the I mean, I do appreciate the sort of anti imperialism anti capitalism message of it. That's was
Misha 21:31
I disagree that it had that message because at the end, they're like, Woohoo, rich wearing their furs and jewels and like, and it's just sort of like Okay, so these assholes who were mercenaries still got rich in the end. And they won.
Tyler 21:49
For me, I got I got they were bad people. And but yeah, that's capitalism. Capitalism wins. Unfortunately, it's bad, but it wins.
Misha 21:57
I would say it celebrated them winning at the end.
Tyler 22:01
Yeah, I do think there was a little too much of that. But for most of it, it's like, this is like a clear. The good guys are the indigenous peoples and the bad guys are the colonizers, like,
Misha 22:11
Yeah, but they were like our city. Our civilization is being destroyed. We have to scavenge for food, and then they win like it's restored. And what do they get at the end? A Metropolis. Yeah, like who the fuck wants? Like, why would that be their goal?
Tyler 22:30
Well, that's reportedly what they had before except without the protective bubble around them.
Misha 22:36
Oh, made by giant robots - that clap?
Tyler 22:40
Yeah. Okay, that's your problem with the movie, because that was like one of the best parts the clapping robots.
Misha 22:46
Why- why just have a bubble?
Tyler 22:49
Yeah. I think that's a huge problem like this. It's not a new thing. It's not like an Atlantis problem.
Misha 22:56
I was so disappointed just like, Oh, great. They have a city with flying cars.
Tyler 23:02
Yeah,
Misha 23:03
that's what they wanted this whole time, instead of like a paradise that they had before.
Tyler 23:08
But their paradise before was flying cars and stuff. It's like they were already futuristic
Misha 23:12
That's not paradise, okay,
Tyler 23:14
maybe it is for them
Misha 23:15
Describe paradise you'd say like fruit trees and plants and like everyone's outside bathing in the sun naked. And like, that's paradise like water and swimming.
Tyler 23:26
Maybe that's not what they think paradise is
Misha 23:29
just the Industrial Revolution, having flying cars and everybody using technology to be where we are today. And Snapchat!
Tyler 23:38
Well their technology is based on their magic, and it's not based on pollutants. But I also think there's a bigger problem here with with stories like this, it's like, and there's not an easy fix. It's like the quote unquote, noble savage, like metaphor, right? That these people are like, noble and traditional and set in their ways. And like don't like have, like three dimensional personalities where they can choose their fates, right. It's like they go back to what they traditionally do. Or they change and like marry a white guy. And it's like,
Misha 24:15
right, this is a like a white savior thing. Like, we can't read our own language. So this white guy has to come and help us.
Tyler 24:22
Yeah, so I don't have a problem with them being like, Yo, straight up. We've got sweet technology. Let's let's stick with that. Because we own that and we've made it. that's fine with me. The problem I have is like, yeah, we can't do this. We can't read we can't grow things.
Misha 24:35
But what they did with it. But what they did with with that cool technology was just have flying cars. come up with something more interesting
Tyler 24:44
Flying cars are pretty sweet though,
Misha 24:46
Why? They're in one city just fully zipping back and forth.
Tyler 24:50
Look, I live in a city of like-
Misha 24:51
There's a ton of them.
Tyler 24:53
I live in Istanbul, which like New York is massive. I would love a fucking flying car that - a flying care that's shaped like a hammerhead Shark.
Misha 25:00
Okay,
Tyler 25:01
pretty awesome
Misha 25:02
if they were like hammerhead sharks.
Tyler 25:03
there was one yeah
Misha 25:04
they were.
Tyler 25:05
Yeah
Misha 25:05
Did you see the narwhal ship that they got to in the end?
Tyler 25:10
yeah
Misha 25:12
"Hi, I'm a narwhal!"
Tyler 25:14
there was I liked the I liked that Italian dude is like "could I have the sporty one the tuna?" I thought that was funny yeah I don't know
Misha 25:23
He called it a fish! so insulting I guess not insulting
Tyler 25:28
Because they all shapes like at the very end when it's when the cameras panning out and like one of the ships flies flies past and like the credits roll it was as far as I remember it looked like a hammerhead sharks it had like a hammer
Misha 25:40
All right.
Tyler 25:41
Anyway that's why I said in the beginning this is Disney's Dances with Wolves because it's like that noble
Misha 25:49
yeah
Tyler 25:50
native peoples and like they can't they're in stasis until a white guy with good intentions comes in and like learns from them. And then so that's super problematic, obviously. I did like that this isn't really story, I suppose. But I did like that they made the Atlanteans kind of like this almost like not Polynesian but almost like a like because the Atlanteans were like, Greeks basically, you know,
Misha 26:14
yeah.
Tyler 26:16
But they made made them like interesting sort of mishmash. Like the architecture was like part like Mayan and part like, Tibetan.
Misha 26:23
yeah, I liked it. I actually liked the design of the things and the like. Like the visuals I liked a lot.
Tyler 26:34
Yeah, yeah. So, okay, let's come, let's maybe decide on the story. And then we can move on to
Misha 26:40
all right.
Tyler 26:41
To other things. story, I think. I mean, yeah. The story I don't think is very good. I think it's pretty, pretty basic, pretty overdone. And there are glimmers of like interesting moments, but that isn't because of a story, I think.
Misha 26:59
Right. So don't think it's the story that moves it. So
Tyler 27:06
we gave alice in wonderland of five for story.
Misha 27:09
I think this is lower.
Tyler 27:11
I think this is lower too. Even though Alice in Wonderland doesn't quite have much of a story. But this one this one's worse. Yeah.
Misha 27:18
She's learning. She falls asleep. She has a dream. She wakes up.
Tyler 27:21
Yeah.
Misha 27:24
I think I mean, I think people would appreciate hearing me explain Alice in Wonderland rather than this again.
Tyler 27:31
Yeah. So like the the you you were like, this is easy. I love it. This time with Atlantis. There was pain in your face as you were explaining it. So that's
Misha 27:39
There was a pain in my chest as I was explaining it.
Tyler 27:42
Giving you like, yeah, heart, heart murmurs. Whatever I gave it,
Tyler 27:47
I'm still sweating from that.
Tyler 27:48
Yeah, I gave it a three.
Misha 27:50
Me too Tyler.
Tyler 27:52
Really?
Misha 27:53
Yeah.
Tyler 27:55
Nice.
Misha 27:56
I don't have to like strong arm you into changing your score.
Tyler 28:01
Let's jump back to original-. I mean, we don't need to go in order all the time. Anyway. But let's come back to originality. Obviously, Atlantis, this has been around since Plato. And it hasn't been done many times. It's in like the literary popular imagination. But like, this story hasn't been done much.
Misha 28:21
Yeah, I agree. I liked it. I mean, I liked that they did this. And I was excited to see it because we've heard about Atlantis, the lost city of Atlantis. And I like the original idea of it. And it was, it was fun enough.
Tyler 28:41
Yeah.
Misha 28:41
to kind of see what someone would do with it.
Tyler 28:45
Yeah. And I liked-
Misha 28:46
It hasn't really been done before.
Tyler 28:49
Yeah,
Misha 28:49
in a movie.
Tyler 28:50
I don't think so. I mean, yeah, there have been there's a lot of like, references and stories about Atlantis, but nothing quite like this.
Misha 28:58
Right.
Tyler 28:58
Unfortunately, the story ended up being sort of cookie cutter, but the originality should be Yeah, I don't know. Like, I guess it shouldn't be super low. It shouldn't be as low as like, Alice in Wonderland or A Christmas Carol.
Tyler 29:10
Right.
Tyler 29:12
So I don't know. Should we give it should we give it points for like an original take on an old tail?
Misha 29:17
Yeah, I would say a four?
Tyler 29:22
five,
Misha 29:22
five? a five. Let's go with five.
Tyler 29:25
Okay, this one I hadn't put his score down like my own score, because I was just,
Misha 29:29
Neither had I.
Tyler 29:30
I was on the fence. Yeah,
Misha 29:32
yeah.
Tyler 29:33
I liked also how they brought in, like, sort of Jules Verne esque sort of steampunky like adventure.
Misha 29:43
So that was fun with the animation. Yeah, I actually want to mention a couple things about the story again, if I can.
Tyler 29:49
Yeah.
Misha 29:51
So a lot of people died in this movie. Like,
Tyler 29:54
Oh, yeah.
Misha 29:56
Right off the bat. So like, what? 1000s of Atlanteans dead.
Tyler 30:00
Yep,
Misha 30:00
that's how it opens. Then they're going to Atlantis in 1914 a couple 100 People die.
Tyler 30:07
Yep.
Misha 30:08
Just dead bye! okay. And then we're just left with the main cast like
Tyler 30:14
but then suddenly when when Rourke when commander Rourke is gonna take over there are suddenly all these like
Misha 30:19
A whole bunch of other people with gas masks on.
Tyler 30:22
Yeah, yeah.
Misha 30:22
Where'd they come from?
Tyler 30:25
Yeah, this. I was reading on Wikipedia.
Misha 30:28
Magic.
Tyler 30:28
Yeah, magic, magic capitalist magic. I was reading on Wikipedia that in the production, the development team were T shirts that said, "Atlantis: less music more explosions" or something like that. That was there. Like I said before, earlier in this episode from the beginning, they're like, we're gonna make like,
Misha 30:45
Who is this, Michael Bay? Jesus.
Tyler 30:47
Yeah, so they were like we're gonna make we don't want to get stuck in like a Disney rut where it's like a formula. We're gonna make something different. AKA, we're going to sort of look at what our competitors are doing and doing successfully and see if we
Misha 31:00
And make a flap
Tyler 31:02
and make a flop. Well, to be fair, Don Bluth came out with Titan AE right before this. And that was a huge flop. So it's not just Disney's fault. But
Misha 31:10
yeah, why would they be like, Oh, that flopped. We can too?
Tyler 31:15
Well, I don't know if they actually were. That was me inferring that they were looking at their competitors. But they were like, Okay, we're not going to do any. It's not going to be a musical. And, and it was the first PG Disney movie since Black Cauldron.
Misha 31:30
As opposed to G?
Tyler 31:32
as opposed to G, Yeah. But it's not that PG. a bunch of people fuckin' die though.
Misha 31:36
A ton of people died. It's PG.
Tyler 31:38
Yeah. Although I hate the rating system anyway, it's,
Misha 31:42
I do too. It doesn't make any sense. Like, okay, you could have the nicest thing and you say fuck, and then it makes it something else. Like,
Tyler 31:49
yeah,
Misha 31:50
whatever.
Tyler 31:50
But also like, what if all those people die? Like, and like,
Misha 31:55
oh, yeah, but if you don't have blood...
Tyler 31:56
but if there's one boob then it's
Misha 31:58
Oh, yeah, you can have unlimited death and murder.
Tyler 32:02
Yeah,
Misha 32:02
But a single boob. But you can have naked men. Aladdin. Did we see any Aladdin nips?
Tyler 32:09
No. Rem- you made fun of me? Because there are no- Aladdin doesn't have nipples.
Misha 32:13
Oh Yeah! cuz then it wouldn't be PG. Right? No nips. No boobs.
Tyler 32:19
No nips. I think Hercules had some nips. But anyway. That's off topic.
Misha 32:27
Okay, so but I just also want to say so all it took to find the magic power was to stand in a particular place.
Tyler 32:37
Yep.
Misha 32:38
No one for over 8000 years. Just stood in that water fountain.
Tyler 32:45
But didn't but correct me if I'm wrong, I might be misremembering even though I just watched this twice in a week as well. Didn't the king say that he didn't want his daughter to turn out like- he didn't want them to find that
Misha 32:57
Yeah, but he didn't tell them where he hid it so what if there's just kids running around being like "WEEE water!" and then like stepped in it and they were like, where am I going?
Tyler 33:06
Well that's why they're
Misha 33:07
This is an elevator.
Tyler 33:08
that's why there's so few children because they have to murder those children as soon as that happens and get rid of them any mistake-
Tyler 33:08
what about the witnesses?
Tyler 33:11
Also killed
Misha 33:11
Okay, so Tyler explained it.
Tyler 33:12
we already know - Yeah, look, I've got my finger on the pulse of this. We already know the Atlanteans are extremely ruthless. They shut off the rich part of town and let 1000s of people die.
Misha 33:30
That's true.
Tyler 33:31
So this is not a this is not a good civilization. Kida's fine. But mostly-
Misha 33:38
It's like Under the Dome meets the Hunger Games
Tyler 33:41
Under the Dome. Are you referring to the wonderful TV show?
Misha 33:45
The hit TV show!
Tyler 33:46
The hit TV show Under the Dome? Oh my god how have we not talked about Under the Dome? I didn't realize
Misha 33:55
I don't know. Because this is our first dome that's been in-
Tyler 34:01
I'm not just talkin' podcast, like how have we not ever talked about Under the Dome?
Misha 34:05
We have talked about it!
Tyler 34:06
Have we?
Misha 34:07
when we both watched it like however many years ago. I know you watched it.
Tyler 34:12
Okay.
Misha 34:12
You watched it more than we did. I at some point it was like I can't do this. I can't do this anymore.
Tyler 34:18
My memory-
Misha 34:19
like I will well I'm a die hard Under the Dome fan.
Tyler 34:22
Oh, yeah. Yeah, I don't think I even finished it but I- if I start something I it's really hard to stop until I finish. So yeah, I watched a bunch of it. Man. I've memory like a fucking garbage heap. I remember like,
Misha 34:34
yeah,
Tyler 34:34
the most useless shit but then I don't remember the most important things like that we talked about Uunder the Dome. So apologies.
Misha 34:48
All right.
Tyler 34:48
Anyway, so originality five. Yeah, some of them it gets points for just recapping because we went on a massive tangent. It gets points for like doing the Atlantis tale in a different way. A despite the story being kind of bleh but not high enough to be like, super original like, like a Goofy Movie, for example. Animation. Now, I have a love hate relationship with the animated movie.
Misha 35:14
I do too. There's parts of it that I really love. Like we were talking a little bit about the design and symbolism of Atlantis and I really liked it and I liked the steampunky feel of it. If you took all of the Explorer characters out of it. I would have really liked it. That's how I feel.
Tyler 35:39
Yeah, but then what would happen? I guess they'd have to reall- the movie it would be totally different. Like because the whole
Misha 35:46
No, I just mean like literally just remove them and watch the movie without like,
Tyler 35:51
right
Misha 35:51
without those cells. Yeah, it's very pretty.
Tyler 35:55
So Milo is just talking to other just no one just looking around talking to people.
Misha 35:59
Here's not there either. You just hear voices and see like the ships and the steampunk stuff and no characters and things move and Then you get to Atlantis and you can see all the Atlanteans.
Tyler 36:10
that may make it better It may make it even more confusing. I'll be honest with you Mish, But
Misha 36:15
Audrey the mechanic this is the thing that bothered me the most out of everything even it bothered me even more than the fucking plot of this movie. Why was Audrey drawn like she was in Roger Rabbit or Cool World and not like she was drawn for this movie?
Tyler 36:32
It was really weird and I couldn't really make sense of it in the in the credits it says like animation for Milo these people animation for Helga, these people,
Misha 36:42
right.
Tyler 36:43
So
Misha 36:43
which is typical,
Tyler 36:44
and I feel like that's you you separate things, but she looked really different. And it like
Misha 36:51
It was so off putting.
Tyler 36:53
Yeah. And Helga looked really bad. I thought like she she didn't look like she belonged in the movie, like,
Misha 37:00
yes. It's just like different characters were - they like
Tyler 37:05
Helga's the second bad guy, the lieutenant for those who haven't seen the movie? The femme fatale kind of person.
Misha 37:11
Yes. Which I didn't even understand.
Tyler 37:15
I mean, it's yeah,
Misha 37:16
it was very clunky. It was very clunky. Nobody matched each other.
Tyler 37:21
It was weird. Yeah. Like when Roark played by the indomitable voice by James Garner of Rockford Files. Wonderful voice. Like when he was standing next to Helga, there was like a very clear difference in his style and clear and it's like, he was very, like, clear, but Helgen like her face moved in weird weird ways. Like it was have almost like,
Misha 37:43
And the cook was totally different.
Tyler 37:45
The cook was different.
Misha 37:46
Like the gold digg- gold miner. No Cookie is the
Tyler 37:51
Cookie's the Prospector, Jim Varney.
Misha 37:53
Yeah, Prospector. That's the word I was looking- Jim Varney. Yep.
Tyler 37:57
The what's her name Packard, the old lady who smokes. That like,
Misha 38:02
Oh the phone operator.
Tyler 38:04
Yeah, she looked very different. She looked like almost straight from a Don Don Bluth movie. It was just
Misha 38:10
And every- they were all so one dimensional. It's like they just took caricatures from all different things and put them together. And this isn't Who Framed Roger Rabbit or Cool World, which is a great movie, even though no one agrees with me.
Tyler 38:30
I don't remember it at all. But
Misha 38:32
oh, okay, you need to watch that
Tyler 38:34
I should rewatch it because I don't. It's bad if I don't even remember if I liked it or not. That means it deserves a re-watch
Misha 38:40
That was a family favorite in my household growing up. And I only learned I think in college that it was not meant for kids. But my parents were like they're cartoons So how bad could it be? And they let us watch it over and over again.
Tyler 38:58
That's the one that's got like Brad Pitt in it. And yeah,
Misha 39:03
anyway,
Tyler 39:04
yeah, but the animation I think this movie, it's not its fault. But it suffers from like over use of digital effects that have not aged well. And like, it's not really the
Misha 39:15
They should have just made it standard animation.
Tyler 39:18
I think so too. But I see why they did it. Obviously. Like it's understandable but like in hindsight,
Misha 39:23
that part didn't bother me as much as the characters.
Tyler 39:26
Yeah. couple scenes to highlight that I'd like to highlight the the Firefly scene was really awesome. I thought
Misha 39:34
that was cool.
Tyler 39:35
When fireflies like light everything on fire. That was really cool looking. I also think like some of the I mean, there's some really beautiful shots obviously like I mean, I think overall the animation
Misha 39:47
I wish we got to see more of Atlantis, like panoramic views. Spend more time there. The whole movie to me felt so fast. Like I didn't understand the timeline of their journey to get to Atlantis. I thought it was like four hours. But then I realized when I rewatched it, they were saying things that made it sound like it was made- months long.
Tyler 40:11
Yeah, they went through like a snow. Like a snowy place.
Misha 40:15
Where was that snow pl- Wait, where was that?
Tyler 40:17
I don't know. It's all weird.
Misha 40:19
How could it snow underground?
Tyler 40:20
Underground. Yeah, I don't know. How was there an atmosphere with clouds like you said before? Yeah, it literally took a while. I was fine with the montage of that. Actually,
Misha 40:31
I wasn't because I didn't understand the timeline at all. Like, Milo is reading his book, and they're like "reading it again. You've heard that like, 12 times" and I'm like, How long have they been here?
Tyler 40:44
Yeah. Did they ever? Yeah, I don't think they ever say. it's clearly a long time though. You-
Misha 40:51
I didn't think so the first time I watch
Tyler 40:53
flashback, listeners, flashback to the A Bug's Life episode where Misha said she wanted more montage in the traveling parts of the of the movie. So this time she's flip flopping
Misha 41:07
Hey, they're very different movies.
Tyler 41:09
They're very different movies.
Misha 41:09
I'm allowed to Flip Flop so Fuck you.
Tyler 41:15
Another just little quick thing is like, there were some really just wonderful small moments like when Milo gets into the water and his bathing suit, inflates.
Misha 41:23
Oh, I like that. That was cute.
Misha 41:24
I don't think. Ah, maybe.
Tyler 41:24
That was great. That was really good. Because that just happened to me all the time. And then it makes like a fart sound. And there are a lot of cool little things like that, too, that I appreciated. I think Yeah. In hindsight, it could have all been 2D that might have been way more work for them. I don't know. Don't really know what the rigs were like back then. But the it's just weird to me, because I mean, not. Don't I don't know anything about animation, really. But the digital animation stood out more than like it did in A Bug's Life, which was like completely, like digital, as far as I know. So it's weird. Maybe it's because of the mix between digital and 2d. Like animation. That's why it stood out possibly
Tyler 41:27
Yeah,
Tyler 41:30
I didn't think it was that bad or jarring. The cat was really cute. I like that.
Tyler 42:14
It was- the cat in the beginning?
Misha 42:16
And at the very end,
Tyler 42:18
yeah. Okay.
Misha 42:20
Milo's cat. It's a really cute cat. it's a little chunky cat.
Tyler 42:24
Little chonk. The very beginning like when there those ships are flying to warn the city of the flood that looks really wonky. I thought really janky but, and it's not the best way to like start a movie because like the flood like the the big tsunami coming in. That looked awesome. But then the scene right after it looked really bizarre and clunky. I don't know. Like, it's like, I think somewhere in the middle because I also had a big problem with the inconsistency of the characters. Like they're all fine by themselves, but like, together, it was a bit of a mess. So I don't know like,
Tyler 43:05
You think four?
Tyler 43:06
okay, I was gonna say five to be nice, but I'm fine with going to a four.
Misha 43:10
I mean, Aladdin only got a six.
Tyler 43:14
Yeah. Mostly because I was adamant that I really was not happy with all the problems. We didn't really give it Yeah, it wasn't so much for the CGI, but more for like, the rushed quality of things that weren't the genie like
Misha 43:27
yes, yeah.
Tyler 43:29
This I don't know. I think it Atlantis- the good. Like when Atlantis hits high it hits really high, though
Misha 43:35
It's high. So maybe we should give it a five.
Tyler 43:38
Yeah,
Misha 43:39
or you think more?
Tyler 43:40
I think five is fair. Yeah. Music and sound. Now I really liked that they decided not to make this a musical because I think that would have not been good. And I think that music was
Misha 43:52
I think the problem though, was that they introduced a song the first time and only once in the movie, where or that I noticed where they were swimming underwater. And it was like Enya ish. And I kind of liked that. I was like, You know what they should have done? No music, and then they get to Atlantis. And then you're like, transported through sound and music to a different place like ethereal music in this like magical. Like thing- and I think that's what they should have done to make you feel like in all senses that you're in a different place. Not a Musical.
Tyler 44:32
I don't know if i - You mean like no score whatsoever until they get to that point.
Misha 44:38
Just very different. And they only did that once.
Tyler 44:42
Yeah,
Misha 44:42
When they were swimming,
Tyler 44:43
but the music was pretty different before that, like it was all like sort of like typical sort of
Misha 44:48
It was generic
Tyler 44:49
generic store.
Misha 44:51
But that's what I mean. they kept doing that. Like they didn't really do much more.
Tyler 44:55
Yeah, there was this when they first meet When Milo first meets Kida and then like runs after her there's like, classic sort of like tribal. The quote unquote tribal sounding like,
Misha 45:09
but that's like, not even what I mean. Like if this place is magical, we should have heard it.
Tyler 45:16
Yeah, I agree with that. I think they're they could have done more with this. I think the score was a bit flat. Yeah. Sound in general was good. I thought
Misha 45:26
sound I thought was good. The part where Rourke turns blue. I didn't even talk about that. Oh my god. I don't even understand that. There are no rules to this movie.
Tyler 45:36
Yeah,
Misha 45:36
but when he cuts him with glass, he turns blue. He starts making this weird creepy sound. Did you hear- Did you hear that?
Tyler 45:46
like a weird sort of like metallic kind of
Misha 45:48
A dinosaur robot? I don't want to do it because people will punch their radios and phones.
Tyler 45:54
We'll lose - we'll lose subscribers. It was like it was a- it was the sound of a transformer dying.
Misha 46:00
It was awesome. I loved that. I didn't- I didn't understand what was happening. But I loved that sound. And it was like one of my favorite parts of the movie.
Tyler 46:08
The score- The sound was good. The score kind of generic. I did like-
Misha 46:13
I'd say a 6.
Tyler 46:13
the choice to make it like - I was gonna say five
Misha 46:15
Not a musical. Well, I think I have less issues with the sound than I did with the animation.
Tyler 46:23
Yeah, I'm kind of on the fence.
Misha 46:24
Unremarkable unremarkable to me is better than problems. Or you think they're equal?
Tyler 46:32
No, you're
Misha 46:33
You take the high and the low of animation. And then unremarkable is like you know the flatline between the two.
Tyler 46:40
Yeah,
Misha 46:40
we both get a five.
Tyler 46:42
I would agree that unremarkable is is maybe- I mean, I don't know like, on the one hand I like I like when they take swings and if it does, it's the reason why I like like, really bad movies is like they somebody took a swing and just like didn't work but they like you see the effort-
Misha 46:58
The tried! Yeah...
Tyler 46:59
Yeah, so that's one reason why I like the animation. It's just like, kind of like- the parts that work really work and then the parts that don't don't work, but they it's clear what they were that they were really putting in effort.
Misha 47:11
I mean, A Christmas Carol got a five on music and sound.
Tyler 47:15
Yeah. Which I didn't like,
Misha 47:17
and I wish I had like, chopped my ears off for and my- I took my eyes out.
Tyler 47:22
Yeah. And also another thing with the music is the credit song was really bad.
Misha 47:28
Oh, I wrote that too. I was like, I wrote. Wow, this is terrible.
Tyler 47:33
Yeah,
Misha 47:34
I would give this a five.
Tyler 47:36
I think six is too high. I'm fine with a five. I can bargain to five.
Misha 47:40
I agree. No, I like five.
Tyler 47:41
I've been watching a lot of like YouTube videos of Dragon's Den, which is like the UK Shark Tank. And so I'm really into like negotiation now. So yes, I can't go as high as six. I can't go as high as six. But I shall go to a five.
Misha 47:42
Shark Tank And Dragon's Den.
Tyler 47:55
protagonist, protagonist protagonist Milo thatch
Misha 47:58
I'm just gonna make. I'm gonna make a statement for all characters. For all these upcoming categories. Every single character was one dimensional. I didn't care about any of them.
Tyler 48:17
Yeah, that's I think that's totally fair. I have a little bit of a soft spot for Milo because he's like a bookish guy. He's a nerd. He's not. He's not like, he was not an asshole
Misha 48:26
He was annoying. He kind of was. he was so arrogant!
Tyler 48:31
was he? was he arrogant? He's not arrogant like Flick was.
Misha 48:36
okay. Yeah, he was. I actually, like,
Tyler 48:39
prove it.
Misha 48:40
So they're trying to get the machine flying car started. And he's just, she's like, Yes, I did that and he was. Like, I don't know. He just every time he's like, rubs it in people's faces when he knows how to do something. And I'm just like, Calm the fuck down. Alright, stop mansplaining everything. we get it, you know this stuff. Okay, we get it. You're the smartest person here Calm the fuck down.
Tyler 49:04
But everyone was also so shitty to him.
Misha 49:08
So that gives him the right to behave that way? You know, you can't control other people's behaviors. He can just not be such an arrogant,
Tyler 49:15
but like there was like two instances where he did that one with with was the Audrey the mechanic.
Misha 49:23
Two too many.
Tyler 49:23
Yeah, to too many. You're right about that.
Misha 49:25
And he just never admitted what his faults were when he was like, Yeah, I know how to drive a truck. Fuck you, no you don't like just say you don't know how to drive a truck.
Tyler 49:32
Yeah, that's fair. That's fair. Yeah. I think it's just I guess. I tend to sympathize with Milo more than like someone like Flick because I don't. I don't know. Because he's a he's a nerd, basically.
Misha 49:46
Yeah, but he wasn't even that good at it.
Tyler 49:47
And It's Michael J. Fox.
Misha 49:49
I know. I do like Michael J. Fox. I'd rather just have them like, have Michael J. Fox act it out like a live action blend. That's what they should do. just get rid of everybody. turn it into live action.
Tyler 50:04
Yeah, I think as a protagonist, he's he's, he's not as great as- like he doesn't really
Misha 50:10
I actually, like Flick more at the end of A Bug's Life
Tyler 50:14
Flick- Flick has more growth,
Misha 50:15
he does have more growth.
Tyler 50:17
I was thinking like,
Misha 50:18
He like finds he like finds his courage for, like, why?
Tyler 50:23
Because he wants to have sex with this native lady. Basically
Misha 50:26
right? That's like not, it's not compelling.
Tyler 50:29
It's not a compelling reason. I mean, I
Misha 50:31
we should have, we should have seen him more depressed about his life at the beginning. Right? Because it just like so quickly goes from him being angry to getting this paid position to go on this expedition. What we should have seen is before Helga shows up him like, being really sad feeling sorry for himself having low self esteem. And then like, as he's in Atlantis, he realizes that he's not worthless that he grows into like believing in himself. No, we don't fucking get any of that this like arrogant asshole just the whole time is like, "I'm so great. Nobody believes me. I'm so great. I'm so great. Hello, everybody. I'm so great."
Tyler 51:12
Yeah, it's a little bit of like,
Misha 51:13
I have really strong feelings about this.
Tyler 51:15
I think I mentioned this with A Bug's Life, but it's a little bit like the tortured hero like the sort of Ayn Randian hero. That's like, no one understands my genius. Yeah.
Misha 51:25
You know, if people are going to pay for you to go to Atlantis, like you actually do have to have proof. if you've been - it sounds like in the beginning of the movie, they already funded an expedition for him and he royally fucked up. Right? He went to the wrong place because he went to Ireland. They said, like, we're not going to do this again. You were wrong before. And he's like "this time, we'll get it right." Okay, well, you need to actually like show not just like, "well, I got a letter wrong. Yeah, the R is a C!"
Tyler 51:54
what kind of institution is this? By the way that like, I mean, it was 1914. But, man,
Misha 52:00
I don't know. I just
Tyler 52:01
funding Atlantean trips.
Misha 52:03
He didn't grow at all. And
Tyler 52:07
yeah,
Misha 52:07
wha- what? Like, it just an kita is just like, "hurray, my white savior. I'm in love with you." Why?
Tyler 52:15
Yep, that's a big. Well, we'll get to that later with strong female lead, but so do you think it's as bad as Scrooge in A Christmas Carol? Who-
Misha 52:24
- Oh, God, no. Oh no no no.
Tyler 52:27
Who had more growth arguably than than Milo?
Misha 52:30
Ew, oh, God. No, he didn't.
Tyler 52:33
I mean, I wrote down from Milo I wrote down three question mark.
Misha 52:36
I would say a three as well.
Tyler 52:41
Three for protagonist. sidekick, which I guess is all the mercenaries.
Misha 52:46
No, they're not. They're not side kicks.
Tyler 52:48
I mean, like, I'm just, I mean, if it's not them, then there is no sidekick.
Misha 52:52
Yeah, there's no sidekick that I thought about that a lot. And I was like, who would be the sidekick?
Tyler 52:56
The mercenaries so you're not giving them any credit for being side kicks because of their turn at the end?
Misha 53:01
No, because, no. There's still- no they are still the mercenaries.
Tyler 53:06
Then their henchmen.
Misha 53:07
Yeah,
Tyler 53:08
yeah. All right.
Misha 53:09
But I wouldn't even classify them as henchmen. I would just say that, that there are no side kicks. The villain is Rourke and Helga is the henchmen. That's how I would-
Tyler 53:20
Helga is a henchman. Yeah, for sure.
Misha 53:21
And those are just supporting characters all of the other-
Tyler 53:25
jumping really quick back to originality. I don't know if you want to talk about this or not, because it's kind of like deep diving into the development stuff. But there was a controversy that this movie plagiarized some Japanese anime. I don't know if you've read about that.
Misha 53:39
Oh,
Tyler 53:40
do you think we should? Do you think we should consider that when we score originality?
Misha 53:46
No.
Tyler 53:46
Okay. One of them that was brought up was like Laputa: Castle in the Sky - Miyazaki's Castle in the Sky. Which is- I see the- I see the similarities, but it's not.
Misha 53:55
It's similarities, but it's not like this Atlantis. Yeah.
Tyler 53:59
Okay, just wanted to bring that up. So people didn't at us for not talking about it. Alright, so sidekick then one you're saying because there's no sidekick like Alice in Wonderland?
Misha 54:09
I don't think there's side- Yeah, I don't think they're side kicks because they also treated him like shit the whole time.
Tyler 54:14
Yeah. Villain now I'm gonna stand up for the villain a little bit here. He's not as good as the- like Jafar or or the Queen of Hearts. Or Hopper.
Misha 54:29
He was fine. I thought he was okay. I mean,
Tyler 54:34
yeah, he's fine. He's He's it's kind of that classic. Kind of like the Treasure Island thing but not as good like he's got a kind of like, mentor ish, friendly, patronizing demeanor towards Milo very Captain Hook-esque. Not Captain Hook. Captain Long John Silver-esque. But then does these inevitable heel turn So he's a little bit I mean, it was you, anybody could see that heel turn coming a mile away that he was going to be the bad guy. But 'cause there's really no one else in the movie that would have been the bad guy. Right?
Misha 55:10
Yeah. He said at the beginning of the movie when they were talking about like, educationally enriching, he goes, Yes, this should be enriching for all of us.
Tyler 55:19
Yes, yeah. mustache twirling. Yeah, so he was he was a bit forgettable. He's definitely not going to win any like, he's not gonna get into the rogues gallery of Disney Villains for sure. But I didn't think he was
Misha 55:29
yeah,
Tyler 55:29
he's maybe it's the voice acting I think James Garner is a great actor, right
Misha 55:34
I thought he was- Yeah,
Tyler 55:35
he's got that charm he oozes charm. And, but it's not that great. I, I mean, I was thinking somewhere around like, three or four to be honest.
Misha 55:42
I'm thinking four. he's better than the protagonist.
Tyler 55:46
Yeah. And then okay. Yeah, I'm fine with four. And then a henchman, I think Helga is really boring.
Misha 55:52
Sucks.
Tyler 55:52
Super one note. Yeah,
Misha 55:54
yeah,
Tyler 55:55
there could have been I mean, they they started with this like femme fatale thing, but then that didn't go in and that's to say that that would have been the answer because that would have just been like objectifying her. But it would have at least been like something for her like some depth to her character like that she was I don't know like
Misha 56:12
there was nothing
Tyler 56:13
there was nothing Yeah, I'm not saying she should have been like fighting over Milo or anything like that because my I love that part. By the way, we're Kida is like your forehead's big and you've got no muscles, so you must be a scholar. That was pretty good. Kida sick burn Kida
Misha 56:28
I did like Kida
Tyler 56:29
Yeah, so I don't know one. henchmen.
Misha 56:32
Yeah.
Tyler 56:32
And from like, if it's just Helga that we're considering henchmen and then all the faceless masked goons with machine guns like it's like a one
Misha 56:42
who magically appeared and came back even though there were only like what five of them?
Tyler 56:49
Yeah, but then when they leave like whenever all the mercenaries stand with Milo and then the trucks pull out and the go over the bridge as it explodes they're like, it looks like 20 dudes in they're like,
Misha 57:00
oh
Tyler 57:00
with with big guns. So many
Misha 57:02
Yeah, yeah. I don't know.
Tyler 57:05
Um strong female lead. Here we are again. There isn't one
Misha 57:10
I mean Kida is but she's not the lead she doesn't show up for like an hour into the movie
Tyler 57:15
right
Misha 57:16
there isn't one
Tyler 57:17
but just to remember we did give points in this category
Misha 57:22
A Bug's Life
Tyler 57:22
for for Princess Atta even though she should have been the protagonist and she wasn't we gave that one higher than a one
Misha 57:29
She was technically the leader of her people and the Queen was as well yeah,
Tyler 57:35
she's the only thing is she's in that movie a lot more than Kida.
Misha 57:40
Um, she helped move things along. She made decisions for her people.
Tyler 57:51
But then she is a bit I don't know It's not her fault. It's the writing but she's passive. She falls for this white dude when she really- there's there's no like story reason that she really should except that he can like
Misha 58:05
he can read
Tyler 58:06
kind of read her language Yeah.
Misha 58:09
It would have been- I'd rather her just like use him to stay and teach them how to read and be like I'm not interested in you physically.
Tyler 58:17
Yeah,
Misha 58:18
that should be the second straight to DVD one
Tyler 58:22
and then also I think yeah,
Misha 58:24
Where then they kill him and eat him
Tyler 58:25
then maybe I haven't seen it there is a straight there is a sequel
Misha 58:28
They plump them up with all their like bounty that they have and then they eat him
Tyler 58:32
might be- Hey might be that
Misha 58:34
He teaches them how to read
Tyler 58:35
Hey, there is a sequel. Maybe it happens in that direct to video. Yeah. Let's hope that it gets really dark and gruesome. Now also, I think like they really did her bad. She should have been the person standing up and fighting for her people and, and challenging Rourke but instead they took her out of the movie and made her
Misha 58:55
yes,
Tyler 58:56
a princess to be rescued by Milo which I thought was bad. Bad choice.
Misha 59:01
She's not very strong. She's just like, "I can swim."
Tyler 59:04
It's also like that if they Yeah, like she's clearly tough because she
Misha 59:09
and then she couldn't even figure out her own fucking technology. All she had to do was keep her hand on the thing to get the car started.
Tyler 59:17
Again, not her fault. It's the writing's fault, I would say because, like they could have-
Misha 59:20
I mean, she listen- up. She's not real. So it is her fault.
Tyler 59:23
I know. But I want to like I want her-. In an alternate timeline. She's like, a very well realized character. But they-
Misha 59:32
In a movie that you and I would write, she would be the actual protagonist.
Tyler 59:39
Yeah.
Misha 59:39
Because Milo would get there. She'd learn how to read and then be like, "fuck you. I'm the boss here. Like this is what's happening. Get out."
Tyler 59:48
And I think also because that choice they made to make her blue and get captured. It made the movie more confusing because of like, what are the powers of this entity?
Misha 59:58
Yeah, and took her out of it.
Tyler 1:00:01
if they just made her kick a bunch of ass because she was clearly capable of it until somebody had a-
Misha 1:00:05
Oh, wait. Yeah. Which is so weird because they had all of these people traceuring at the beginning. Why didn't they do that again? Why did they just go, "Yeah, shoot us we've got this magic healing power"?
Tyler 1:00:19
I don't know. Well, there's a big difference between a lightning bolt birthmark cut on Milo and a machine gun to the chest. So maybe there's a limit to the healing powers.
Misha 1:00:28
And then the king died because Rourke punched him. Can't they like?
Tyler 1:00:32
Well, he was probably like 800,000 years old.
Tyler 1:00:33
Eight HUNDRED thousand years old.
Tyler 1:00:38
Yeah, I don't know how old the king was. He might have just- it might - he might have been just one punch away from death. it could have would have Kida punched him in the face when she got angry at him. He could have died right there.
Misha 1:00:46
And that's why he's dying from a brain aneurysm or hemorrhaging.
Tyler 1:00:50
Or I don't know.
Misha 1:00:52
Why didn't we see any of the Atlanteans fighting? That was bullshit, anyway.
Tyler 1:00:57
Yeah, that it is bullshit because they
Misha 1:01:00
also why wouldn't the fireflies just show up and burn the- and burn Rourke?
Tyler 1:01:06
Good point. I didn't think about that. But they could have totally taken that balloon out quickly. Yeah. They did- Atlantians did get on the flying machines to go help save Kida but then in the confrontation, they didn't show any of them they just showed the Italian dude and and all the other mercenaries. Yeah, wasted opportunities here. But anyway, back to strong female lead because we got to make a decision here. I think it should be low. I think it should be quite low, but not a one. I think-
Misha 1:01:38
I was too. I think it should be a one. UGH.
Tyler 1:01:40
I don't think it should be one. I think it should be higher than one because I mean
Misha 1:01:43
She didn't do anything
Tyler 1:01:44
but she's but she did more and was capable of more than say,
Misha 1:01:48
Jasmine. All right. A two.
Tyler 1:01:52
Okay. Yeah, I mean, I have a lot of problems with the way that they handled her but also like, I mean, we'll get to this right now with bipoc representation-
Misha 1:02:00
the way they handled her butt!
Tyler 1:02:02
Hm? oh, HAHA.
Misha 1:02:04
"I have a lot of problems with the way they handled her butt" and then switched to
Tyler 1:02:08
and then I switched to
Misha 1:02:10
HONK HONK
Tyler 1:02:11
I have a big problem with their
Misha 1:02:13
Wait, do you honk butts?
Tyler 1:02:14
I have a big problem with her dumper. No, um. I have a big problem with the way they handled her.
Tyler 1:02:20
Don't ever call somebody's butt a dumper!
Tyler 1:02:25
Have you never heard that before?
Misha 1:02:32
What- Oh my God, that's awful. Okay, hold on.
Tyler 1:02:41
I don't know she she had she. I don't know she like you said she was like strong. She was kind of a leader. She had more capabilities.
Misha 1:02:49
So yeah, she punched that mole guy in the face. So
Tyler 1:02:52
and he totally deserved it. Can we talk about that, that how offensive that dude was? Like, if I
Misha 1:02:58
awful
Tyler 1:02:59
Yeah, anyway, we're gonna we're gonna get there with the thing because a couple other things I was about to nitpick on are related to the next topic, which is bipoc representation. I'll let you handle this. I do have a couple of things. I want to like bring up but go for it. Hit me with it.
Misha 1:03:13
Okay, so there are it's not exclusively white people. So there is something, but the people that are portrayed, right, so it's not just do they exi-, it's not just like, do they exist or not? It's how they're portrayed.
Tyler 1:03:33
Yeah,
Misha 1:03:33
and I did not like this. I mean, Atlantians I'm guessing are brown maybe. But that's fictional. So it doesn't that doesn't count for anything.
Tyler 1:03:45
I did kind of like how they went that route. But what
Misha 1:03:48
I do too,
Tyler 1:03:49
but it is problematic because of this whole again, like imperialism for so simple. Native culture
Misha 1:03:55
yeah. And the actress who plays Kida, Kidagakash, which she she said, I think that's what it is. She said and he couldn't this- that part drove me
Misha 1:03:55
Yes. I agree.
Tyler 1:03:55
problematic. But yeah,
Tyler 1:04:11
Oh, Milo when he's like "kiga a bugShema kamma".
Misha 1:04:14
But and like you speak the fucking language. I heard it once. I can say it. Like, it made me really mad. And that I want to like, it should lose points. I know. It's a cartoon, and it's for probably dumb white kids. But he should have just said, Can you repeat that a little bit slower, please?
Tyler 1:04:34
Yeah.
Misha 1:04:35
But the actress who plays Kida is black.
Tyler 1:04:38
I think one of her-
Misha 1:04:39
Oh, I think she's half black.
Tyler 1:04:42
One of her parents is from Cree. She might have been a cop and adopted member of First Nations. I can't remember but there's some
Misha 1:04:50
Oh, anyway, mixed race.
Tyler 1:04:51
So there's that. The mechanic lady she's Puerto Rican I think so there's some there's more representation than previous movies.
Misha 1:04:59
Right.
Tyler 1:05:00
My problem was is like, I liked how the doctor is sweet. I liked how he like his character was half African American half Arapaho.
Misha 1:05:11
Yeah,
Tyler 1:05:12
I liked that. But then the way they did it really made me uneasy because he his talking point was, I got this thing part of us from Howard part of it's from the Arapaho Medicine Man.
Misha 1:05:22
Yeah,
Tyler 1:05:22
it's like, almost-
Misha 1:05:23
yeah, it was like
Tyler 1:05:25
a cringy caricature type.
Misha 1:05:27
This I agree. I don't think they did any of it that well.
Tyler 1:05:33
Yeah. So we're gonna miss and Moliere, the French, the French dirt man was just
Misha 1:05:39
awful,
Tyler 1:05:40
quite offensive. Yeah, but there's more. Do we? What do you think about the score? Do we give them an attempt for like, hiring some bipoc people and for at least trying and really missing in some cases? I think with with sweet
Misha 1:06:00
Oh, so the woman who plays Audrey is Argentinian.
Tyler 1:06:06
Argentinian. Okay. Not Puerto Rican,
Misha 1:06:07
Or the daughter of Argentinian immigrants. So yeah. According to Wikipedia. I don't know.
Tyler 1:06:17
Like, I feel like with Sweet it was like good intentions, but it just was cringy, with Moliere was like, just fell flat on its face.
Misha 1:06:26
I think even Audrey just was like, stereotypical caricatures. I hate it,
Tyler 1:06:31
there was really like no character development in this movie. Like, at all really
Misha 1:06:36
None. That's what I'm saying. All of the characters were so one note, just
Tyler 1:06:41
Yeah. But I do completely agree with you on that. But as far as scoring is concerned, I feel like it's gotta be
Misha 1:06:48
I would say a three.
Tyler 1:06:49
Okay, that that was
Misha 1:06:51
What were you gonna say,
Tyler 1:06:52
I was gonna say, two?
Misha 1:06:54
I was looking at previous scores. And the reason I was gonna say two as well, but then I'm looking at A Goofy Movie. And that got a two. And I think this is like, just slightly more
Tyler 1:07:07
Slightly more than A Goofy Movie. Well, it should-
Misha 1:07:10
So do we take -
Tyler 1:07:11
Oh, it should be high. It should be higher. Because Sorry. Go ahead.
Misha 1:07:14
Should we say it should be higher, because there are there are bipoc actors.
Tyler 1:07:20
Yeah.
Misha 1:07:20
And it the characters there are bipoc characters in the movie, but swing and a miss, take a point back down to two for like how they did it.
Tyler 1:07:30
I think three out of 10 is enough of a penalty to them. I think. Yeah. Because that should be I think it should be higher than Goofy because at least they had Yeah. People in the roles so yeah,
Misha 1:07:44
yeah. Okay,
Tyler 1:07:45
three. Fun Factor. I don't know like parts of it were
Misha 1:07:50
I think it was okay.
Tyler 1:07:51
Some of the action was cool. But it was so... no character development plus like really wishy washy, sort of black box of a magical system. And it all just didn't quite come together. Also, we didn't talk about this but like, like some of the some some of the parts were funny like I liked some of the humor that was thrown in but then other parts I just thought fell a bit flat. I did like when whenever what's her name? The old lady the Packard I think her name was the the radio operator. Like some of the things she said were- her little like
Misha 1:08:27
When she's on the phone with her friend She's like "I'll call you back".
Tyler 1:08:30
"whoever stole the the L from the pool sign please return it" like
Tyler 1:08:35
I missed that. That's a good joke, I wanna do that.
Tyler 1:08:38
And every time. Every time she ever talks she's just like "we're all gonna die" I liked like a little this the grouchy grandma.
Misha 1:08:47
Yeah, but she was just so one note too. I wanted to see more from her.
Tyler 1:08:50
No you're right. You're right.
Misha 1:08:52
I like when Jim Varney goes "what in the cockadoodle?!" I didn't like "cilantro" I thought that part was stupid but I liked the phrase what in the cockadoodle.
Tyler 1:09:01
Yeah.
Misha 1:09:01
I like what in the cockadoodle.
Tyler 1:09:03
That's good. I didn't like how he said like "by the mother of Jefferson Davis." I didn't like that.
Misha 1:09:09
I didn't like that character that much. But I -
Tyler 1:09:11
Or like these masks remind me of what I saw in the Dakotas can't show them fear. Like,
Misha 1:09:12
Oh god, yeah.
Tyler 1:09:15
Yeah, I don't know. I don't think it was there were some fun moments. But overall fun factor. I would not give it a high fun factor. Like four I could go to five but I think four sounds better.
Tyler 1:09:34
I think I was thinking four
Tyler 1:09:35
Yeah. And then I think it should get maybe not a whole bunch of negatives but a couple for like things. There's a lot of things that don't sit right with this movie for me like, problematic sort of. imperialist and subaltern relationships. Yeah, running through the whole movie. Problematic depictions of, of characters
Misha 1:09:54
People color. Yeah. And right, and a mole.
Tyler 1:09:58
problematic use of a man who thinks he's a mole.
Misha 1:10:02
Just negative three? .
Tyler 1:10:04
clearly, I mean, I want to I want to like sort of rewind and see what like, when that movie came out like what a child's reaction to Moliere would be like, I feel like
Misha 1:10:14
I think kids would like it.
Tyler 1:10:15
Kids'll probably like, Yeah, cuz he's like, he just digs around in dirt,
Misha 1:10:18
He's just silly. It might not even be the French thing. It's just like they took they take anybody.
Tyler 1:10:24
Yeah.
Misha 1:10:26
And make him weird.
Tyler 1:10:27
Yeah, so he's probably more fun for kids. But yeah, I don't know.
Tyler 1:10:32
Didn't work for late 30s. Tyler That's for sure, um, negative negative five?
Misha 1:10:41
five?
Tyler 1:10:42
Yeah, I was thinking something like that.
Misha 1:10:43
Because I was thinking negative three. So let's just meet in the middle.
Tyler 1:10:47
Okay, compromise. I like it. Yeah. And effervescence, I would give this one a goose egg. I'll be honest.
Tyler 1:10:53
Yeah, me too.
Tyler 1:10:53
I didn't get any of that Disney magic. I appreciate that. They were trying to go-
Misha 1:10:57
I didn't even know. I didn't even know it was Disney. So, Atlantis, the Lost Empire gets a total of 32 out of 110.
Tyler 1:11:10
That is a failing grade no matter what.
Misha 1:11:12
Yeah, yes, it is and deserving that failing grade.
Tyler 1:11:16
Well, Atlantis, colon, Lost Empire. Look on the bright side. You beat A Christmas Carol.
Misha 1:11:23
And the next movie we'll be watching and talking about is Bambi.
Tyler 1:11:27
Yeah. I'm excited about this one. I haven't seen it since I was a kid. So so it'll be interesting.
Misha 1:11:34
Yeah, me neither. I don't really remember too much. But we'll see.
Tyler 1:11:38
Yeah, I remember like little like snippets and like, pieces of it, but not like anything about the story or whatever. Except for some
Misha 1:11:45
right
Tyler 1:11:46
key moments of the story that are burned into my brain.
Misha 1:11:50
gonna weigh heavily on my heart.
Tyler 1:11:52
Yeah, so that'll be cool. Yeah, awesome. So thanks, everybody, for listening. We really appreciate it. And
Misha 1:12:00
And thanks, special shout out to Tom Rossi. Whoever you are for the amazon giftcard you gave us! that was really nice,
Tyler 1:12:08
very considerate. We appreciate it.
Misha 1:12:12
so if you want to get in touch with us or send us a gift card you can email us at [email protected] or you can get in touch with us on Twitter and Instagram @muchabupod. Thanks y'all.
Tyler 1:12:24
Yeah, thanks. And until next time, bye
Misha 1:12:28
Bye.