Please excuse the grammatical errors, any other errors you come across, and the general sloppiness of this transcription of Much Abu About Nothing's podcast episode on Aladdin! Our episodes are transcribed by a robot and roughly edited by Misha (which takes a long time).
Tyler 00:00
content warning. Though this is a podcast about kids movies, this podcast isn't for kids and contains content some people may find offensive.
Misha 00:29
Welcome to Much Abu About Nothing a podcast where we discuss and rate animated Disney films going in alphabetical order following a rigorous scientific quantitative scoring system based on absolutely nothing. I'm your host Misha,
Tyler 00:47
and I'm your other host Tyler. And today we are talking about Aladdin. 1992's Aladdin.
Misha 00:54
Yes. The animated version.
Tyler 00:56
Yeah,
Misha 00:57
because we're only doing animated films.
Tyler 00:59
We are only doing animated films part- mostly I think to save ourselves from having to watch.
Misha 01:04
Yeah, Will Smith do...
Tyler 01:06
however just full transparency as part of my research. I watched the new one.
Misha 01:11
No, you didn't.
Tyler 01:12
I did. I did.
Misha 01:13
You should not have
Tyler 01:15
Bad choice. It was a bad choice.
Misha 01:16
Yes. Eww,
Tyler 01:17
I can never get that time back.
Misha 01:19
Should we? Should we go in order for our rating system? And like for the categories? Or should we jump into the glaring, obvious category? That is
Tyler 01:29
the ele- the Abu elephant in the room? Which is well, how about we do- How about we do like your your cool, always awesome summary of...
Misha 01:40
Oh, yeah. Okay. So, all right. So Aladdin is about a Vizier- a Grand Vizier. I'm gonna start with the villain here.
Tyler 01:54
I love I love that. I like that approach to this.
Misha 01:57
It's about- because that's really what happens. It's like, Jafar's story if you're gonna like, follow the plot,
Tyler 02:04
okay.
Misha 02:05
So he is trying to obtain like, all power, and he is on a search for this magic lamp to be able to get the genie and he goes out into the desert. He tries to get the lamp but he can't go into the Cave of Wonders, because no one is worthy that is part of his party. And so he- I don't know- does a magic spell that doesn't make any sense to me with a ring and discovers that Aladdin is the one- is like the chosen worthy person to enter the Cave of Wonders- the diamond in the rough.
Tyler 02:47
The diamond in the rough,
Misha 02:47
rough, rough, rough, rough. And so then he gets Aladdin arrested, and then pretends to be an old man to convince Aladdin to go to the Cave of Wonders. To get the lamp.
Misha 03:08
and then Aladdin. Oh, no, Abu touches something which they're not supposed to touch anything else- he touches this very tempting gem. And the Cave of Wonders gets mad and closes in on them. And Jafar, disguised as the old man. I'm going through this whole plot. I paid attention to this movie. I'll speed it up. Anyway, long story short, Jafar doesn't get the lamp. Aladdin gets the lamp. Aladdin is stuck in the Cave of Wonders. Meets the genie. The genie is like "Aladdin, what do you want?" and he wants to get with Jasmine because they met fortuitously in the marketplace.
Tyler 03:08
Yep,
Tyler 03:53
Yep.
Misha 03:55
And so he wants to be a prince so he can get with Jasmine because she by law has to marry a prince, then they fall in love. But then it turns out Aladdin is not a prince or she finds out that he's not a prince, yada, yada, yada. I don't remember what happens if I don't go through it beat by beat and then Jafar gets a hold of the lamp. Wants all the power, keeps stepping up his level of power, and then Aladdin tricks him into wanting to become a genie. And Jafar doesn't see Aladdin and Abu make eyes at each other like "eh, we're tricking this guy" and becomes a genie, but then is trapped in his own lamp because he has to serve you know, the owner of the lamp and doesn't realize that he's going to be trapped. So you know, happily ever after?
Tyler 04:57
Yeah,
Misha 04:58
there's the synopsis.
Tyler 04:59
pretty good synopsis. I mean, you hit most of the major beats. And Genie gets his freedom in the end.
Misha 05:08
Yes, that is important, because Aladdin almost didn't give it to him, which would have been a pretty shitty move. After promising him his freedom, what everything worked out?
Tyler 05:22
Yeah. So with our system here, we've got different categories we've got, we're looking at originality of the story, we're looking at the story itself, animation, the music and the sound, the protagonist, the sidekick, or side kicks, in this case, the villain, henchmen, if there are any strong female lead, bipoc representation, fun factor. And then there are like negative points, if it doesn't sit right or positive points if it's got that sort of Disney magic effervescence. And so starting off, how about we look at the originality, Mish, you want to look at that? How would you think about that?
Misha 06:01
Well, I know it's not an original story. So I kind of- I was like, oh, you know, One thousand and one- One thou- What is it? 1001 nights, and the Arabian tales than I, it turns out, it's not part of the original 1001 Nights. It's a French story that supposedly takes place in a quote, Chinese city. But yeah, and so- and it somehow got- I was trying to do research on it. I got really confused as to what this is like the origin of the story. All I know is that it's not an original story. I don't know. Do you know more about that?
Tyler 06:41
No, actually, that's the first I heard that. I didn't know that. I thought the lamp... I mean, I knew that the story was obviously heavily change. But I thought the lamp was part of those stories. But
Misha 06:52
So "Aladdin and the wonderful lamp" or something like that was not part of the original. And it got adopted at some point into the collection of stories, but I believe it was a French author who originally wrote it. And I was, I was kind of confused looking into it. It seemed like nobody was quite certain, because all of these texts are so old. Even like the newer one that was, you know, not part of the original collection. Yeah. So not an original story. Of course, they Disneyfied it and it like, you know, added a bunch of things. I don't know. Honestly, I don't know that much about the... how much it's stuck to that original story, though.
Tyler 07:41
Yeah, I'm not sure that and I seem to remember that they're- that they're, they drew a lot of inspiration from the like old film "The thief of Baghdad," which is something like 1940 or something. It's that one- I don't know if you've seen it. I don't think I've ever seen the full thing. But it's the one with like, it's sort of like "Jason and the Argonauts" style. It's got like really weird sort of animation. There's like a massive Genie at one point, stepping on-
Misha 08:04
Oh cool,
Tyler 08:06
I remember that was like part of the inspiration. But- But I don't know how much they took from that. And obviously they they changed it to, like a made up nation. Agrabah
Misha 08:15
right. Yeah.
Tyler 08:16
Yeah. Yeah. So I don't know. I mean, I Yeah. Originally, I gave it a pretty low score. Because I mean, I just,
Misha 08:21
I did too because I knew...
Tyler 08:23
The tale's pretty old. Yeah.
Misha 08:24
Yeah.
Tyler 08:25
But that's super interesting. I didn't know it was a French hail.
Misha 08:30
Ah, I did about two minutes of research. So....
Tyler 08:36
that's sort of our M.O. for this show.
Misha 08:39
Yeah. You know, if I'm wrong, I'm not because this is scientific.
Tyler 08:45
Yep.
Misha 08:45
And we are experts in our own rating system. So suck it. Let's just say what I'm saying is true.
Tyler 08:54
This is off topic. But did you ever do you remember that there was a news story from a few years ago that there was some poll- I don't know if it's apocryphal or not, but there was like a story I've read that like 30% of Republicans polled would bomb Agrabah. you remember that story?
Misha 09:11
Jesus Christ. No, I do not. Yeah. I'm also not surprised.
Tyler 09:16
During during Trump. I think it was during like during Trump's time. But yeah, that's silly and ridiculous. Yeah, so I don't know. What should we give for this? Like, what did we give? Let's look back. What did we give a Christmas? Who gave A Christmas Carol a one for originality.
Misha 09:33
A one. right.
Tyler 09:33
So I feel like-
Misha 09:35
I don't know. I think this is like a thre-, three.
Tyler 09:38
A three. I feel like that's a tiny bit generous, but then again, there haven't been that many. Well, I don't know what I'm talking about. Let's go with a three. I was gonna say two. That was my original thought.
Misha 09:50
I mean, fine. Let's do two because all of the parts of this are from other things. Right? Well-
Tyler 09:58
And well, yeah. So I mean, I don't know how much is Disney or how much is- but the the story about the- the lamp and the dude name Aladdin is old.
Misha 10:08
The Cave of Wonders, all right? It doesn't matter. And what about Jafar? do we know about Jafar's whole storyline?
Tyler 10:16
Jafar was the name of a character in something. I think might even been thief of Baghdad. I can't remember.
Misha 10:21
All right. Then that's a two. Let's just do that.
Tyler 10:24
But I think most of the like, the characterization of Jafar and like what he's all about is- is pretty like original in this film, but I don't know - I'm talking about my ass. I feel like we need to be a little stricter. I'm kind of coming into this strictly though, because looking back at A Goofy Movie, I think it's just because we were so so happy to not be talking about A Christmas Carol, we were very generous, perhaps in hindsight, in some of the scores. I'm not saying we go back and change them, but maybe, maybe for Aladdin we need to keep our science goggles on.
Misha 10:56
Yeah, right. Like we now I'm looking at a Goofy- we'll get to the music but a really high score we gave a Goofy Movie.
Tyler 11:04
Yeah.
Misha 11:06
All right, let's scientific goggles. Down,
Tyler 11:09
Keem 'em on, yeah.
Misha 11:10
Give a two. Okay, story.
Tyler 11:13
Story. So, here's what I think about the story. I think. And I'm sure some other people have said this before. If you take the genie out, like the story's kind of meh without like the genie to liven things...,
Misha 11:29
Okay, let's run through the story real quick. So Jafar's trying to get the lamp, Aladdin gets the lamp instead. And they end up with it. He contacts the- he gets the genie, gets three wishes, just wants to marry the prince... ess. Princess. And doesn't tell her the truth. Jafar gets the lamp. They beat Jafar. Yeah,
Tyler 11:54
and it's like, and another reason I'm saying is kind of meh because it's like, there's so many weird like, sort of, I of course, love this movie when I was a kid. And I didn't see any of this until like, scientifically examining it. Now, but like, a lot of the story's just like, like you said, when you were doing the summary, yada yada yada. It's like then this happens. Like how does Jafar find the diamond in the rough? Aladdin? Why is Aladdin the diamond in the rough? And how does he...
Misha 12:22
Becuase he has a pure heart. Remember when he gives those kids his bread?
Tyler 12:27
Okay, okay. Aladdin is an asshole. Like Aladdin is not pure hearted. He Yes, He gives bread to two kids who wouldn't when they see two starving kids on the street.
Tyler 12:36
Abu didn't he was just like-
Tyler 12:38
Well Abu's also an asshole to you. But we we have- is a- there's a soft spot for him because it's the name of our podcast. But Aladdin is like, I don't know, like every chance and we'll get to this when we get-
Misha 12:51
You're right. He lied.
Tyler 12:53
Yeah, he's a big fat liar. And he had so many chances to not lie, and he kept lying. He even like went back on promise. His promise to the genie.
Misha 13:02
Yeah,
Tyler 13:02
and then went back on it again.
Misha 13:04
It was like when it was convenient for him. But yeah, we'll get into that.
Tyler 13:07
He also has no like nipples, which is also weird, but we'll get into that with the protagonist, but
Misha 13:13
I didn't notice.
Tyler 13:16
I did. But also like, I don't know. And then okay, so Jafar season in the hourglass is like, okay, there's the diamond in the rough but it's just like a dude in the city. Like how does he then find Aladdin that's a little wishy washy. The whole wish things wishy washy. Like if the first wish-
Misha 13:34
He sent the guards, the guards knew Aladdin well, because they were always going after him.
Tyler 13:39
Okay, that's fair. Yeah, it's like go after the person who looks like this.
Misha 13:42
I bet he oversees. Well, didn't he know his name?
Tyler 13:47
I don't think he got his name. He just saw a picture of him in the... now I don't remember.
Tyler 13:52
Maybe it was like, "Okay, I'm looking for a guy with no nipples. Have you ever seen anybody" and they're like, "yes, there's only one."
Tyler 13:58
Razoul knew, yeah, I like that explanation that they're like, I'm looking for a guy that looks like this whose looks like he's he's a thief. And then Razoul and the guards like, "oh, we know that kid." Exactly. Yeah, that makes sense. And then like, why doesn't Jafar just use his mind control powers to gain power from the beginning? Like,
Tyler 14:16
Because he needs more. Because he's a greedy motherfucker who won't like, stop at just being the Vizier.
Tyler 14:22
And then I had just problems with like, I don't know, Jafar and... Jafar, and Aladdin are very similar in the sense that they're using magic to try to go to bone town, and
Misha 14:34
I don't think- I don't think Jafar is using it to go to bone town. I mean, I know at the end, he's like a total perv. And that was disgusting and awful, but I don't think that's his primary motivation. I think it's yeah, power and he's using...
Tyler 14:48
Yes.
Misha 14:49
Yeah. Where Aladdin is actually in love with the princess. I mean, there were all these hot babes around him and he didn't pay any attention to them.
Tyler 14:56
True true.
Misha 14:58
So it was like you know, real love connection with Jasmine.
Tyler 15:02
Yeah. Yeah. And then he just kept this goes back to like the Goofy Movie conversation and with Flik back in A Bug's Life. Like, just fucking tell the truth. Like,
Misha 15:11
Yeah that drove me crazy. Like there were so many opportunities where he should have done it because she would have liked it more.
Tyler 15:18
Yeah.
Misha 15:18
And I'm thinking you're jeopardizing your chances because you're not telling the truth. She obviously doesn't like princes.
Tyler 15:26
Yeah. And yeah, I don't know. I mean, the story's not horrible. It's fun, but it just seemed a bit I don't know. Watching it again. seemed a bit. Meh, I don't know.
Misha 15:37
Right.
Tyler 15:38
Kind of seems like the the the story was, I don't know. Like
Misha 15:42
The moral of the story is tell the truth.
Tyler 15:44
Moral of the story sells me. Yeah, that's a good moral. Yeah, that's a good lesson to learn. It just almost seems like they rushed it a bit in a weird way. And looking-
Misha 15:53
Yes. I thought it felt really short. When we were watching it, like the move- like how the story was moving along. It felt really short. And I thought it was a lot longer when I was a kid. And I mean, I know that's how time works. You know?
Tyler 16:12
Yeah yeah, for sure. And I looked- I started watching the, the direct to video sequels as well, but then I just couldn't. Because they were just so bad. But the Return of Jafar is only an hour. They just-
Misha 16:26
wow.
Tyler 16:27
Yeah. And the new one with Will Smith is like two hours long. So...
Misha 16:32
Jesus.
Tyler 16:33
Pump bloating it didn't work either. But
Misha 16:35
right
Tyler 16:36
yeah, just seemed rushed. Also, just like we'll get into this with animation, but like the production seemed rushed as well. And it turns out that Katzenberg did give them like some sort of horrible deadline.
Misha 16:45
I dont- oh. Oh, okay.
Tyler 16:49
Like, get this done now, but without changing the release date, there was some like, I mean, from an animation production perspective, I think they, they maybe were a bit rushed, but it kind of to me seems like the Yeah, the story is a bit rushed too, but I don't know. I mean, it's okay. I don't.
Misha 17:09
I liked it.
Tyler 17:09
Yeah, I mean, it's still fun. Um, I don't know. I mean, I was thinking like a four.
Misha 17:17
Whoa, no, I was thinking like, a six because I still like the story of like, finding a cool lamp and a genie.
Tyler 17:26
Yeah.
Misha 17:28
I don't know.
Tyler 17:29
That's the thing. The genie is the thing.
Misha 17:31
No but like, but if- you can't, why would you take out the genie? That's like saying, take out 80% of the story. The story is about-
Tyler 17:41
the genie is...
Misha 17:42
Alright I'll go down to a five.
Tyler 17:44
Okay, we can make a compromise.
Misha 17:46
I'll go down to a five,
Tyler 17:47
five for story.
Misha 17:48
Scientific,
Tyler 17:49
But I am gonna dunk on this Aladdin guy when it gets to protagonist.
Misha 17:56
All right, so we talked about the animation a little bit.
Tyler 17:59
Yes.
Misha 18:00
When I was a kid, and I saw it, I remember it because it was one of the first times where they incorporated CGI and animation. I was like, "Holy shit. This is the coolest thing ever. Oh my god. Like, I feel like I'm there. But it's cartoon. That was greatest thing ever." And watching it yesterday. I was like, Ooh, this is... doesn't... these two styles don't blend.
Tyler 18:23
Yeah, it's weird. It's jarring. The...
Misha 18:26
It looks like two different things smushed together on one screen.
Tyler 18:30
Yeah, yeah.
Misha 18:31
Although I really do love the Cave of Wonders. And I feel like it adds so many points to this animation score because it's like... the outside of it. The tiger face.
Tyler 18:44
It's pretty cool. Yeah, the Tiger face was cool. I just see I just thought that the zooming around CGI on the carpet like as they're escaping was a bit jarring.
Misha 18:53
Yeah, I kind of liked it. And I remember as a kid being like, they're gonna make this a ride at Disney World. Because why else would you do that?
Tyler 19:01
Yeah, yeah,
Misha 19:02
But then they didn't and so I'm like, oh,
Tyler 19:04
that part I remember that part was very difficult in the video game I remember but I also suck at video games.
Misha 19:11
I forgot about video game!
Tyler 19:12
Yeah, the video game was fun.
Misha 19:14
Yeah, it was fun. That was Sega right?
Tyler 19:18
Yeah, I think so. Yeah. I seem to remember being Sega Genesis Yeah. Yeah, the cable one was was cool. I think the Cave of Wonders itself is kind of stupid though.
Misha 19:29
The outside?
Tyler 19:30
Not the look of it, but just the character of the Cave of Wonders as an idiot.
Misha 19:34
Why?
Tyler 19:35
Why would you just announce like, "ah, the diamond in the rough, go find him you clearly evil person." Like why? Why announce that to the whole world?
Misha 19:46
It's kind of vague and weird.
Tyler 19:49
Why not just like stay hidden. Why give context clues in hints to people that are clearly bad. Also, if only one may enter, how the fuck did a boo get in there with him?
Misha 20:00
One human or just one?
Tyler 20:04
But then Abu touches the jewel and that sets everything off. So then like,
Misha 20:08
oh
Tyler 20:09
if animals don't count,
Misha 20:10
Maybe it's implied that it's one human not one primate.
Tyler 20:15
But then you okay, but then...
Misha 20:17
then you should have sent in a monkey from the beginning to do it!
Tyler 20:21
Sent in- send in Iago.
Misha 20:23
Oh my God, why didn't he send any Iago?!
Tyler 20:25
Iago can fly. You can just get in there and get out. Yeah,
Misha 20:28
he just- oh my god. You just busted this whole thing wide open.
Tyler 20:33
It's- I also think the Cave of Wonders is a bit dumb because when it's angry and it punishes, it waits and it doesn't close its mouth. It's like, it's just sitting there open. Close your fucking mouth and then they're, they're guaranteed to get stuck in there. But you got to you got to ramp up the tension. You dumb-
Misha 20:49
Okay, tell me how you're going to animate this, what you're explaining.
Tyler 20:56
"You touched the jewel. You must be punished and you shall never leave!" and then the mouth just closes like they did the animation - it closes. Why does it have to wait there for Jafar to do his whole almost stabby stab part?
Misha 21:09
To show that he's bad?
Tyler 21:11
Yeah,
Misha 21:11
so they know that he's bad. Yes, otherwise they'd get out and be like old man. Here's your lamp.
Tyler 21:17
But then why is the Cave of Wonders like so true neutral in this D&D sense? Like why is it like it's totally chill with like, someone possibly horrible getting their hands on the lamp.
Misha 21:27
Okay, tell me who's bad. Who's good.
Tyler 21:30
Well, Jafar is bad.
Misha 21:31
How do you- Well, The Cave of Wonders doesn't give a shit. It is neutral. I actually like that.
Tyler 21:35
That's what I'm saying.
Misha 21:35
yeah. But like, I don't know. I kind of liked the idea of like, I don't fucking care what you've done, what your past is what you- whatever- however you identify. This is what my rules are.
Tyler 21:46
Maybe the cave... Okay, I'm coming around on the cave a little bit. Although I still do think it should have just shut its mouth and trapped Aladdin. But maybe the cave is just like wanting to see the world burn. Like, hey, let's see what happens. And this land is out there.
Misha 22:00
What is that, Chaotic neutral?
Tyler 22:02
Chaotic, chaotic, neutral, I guess chaotic evil, but I wouldn't say he's evil.
Misha 22:06
Right. Oh, so chao-. Wait. I don't remember how that works in D&D, but it doesn't matter. This isn't a D&D podcast.
Tyler 22:14
Back to animation. I thought I have a couple I have some things to say about the animation. But I do agree that the cave wonders interior looked cool. I've really liked the when they actually get into the big cavern with the lamp like that, that frame was really beautiful. They had a couple of beautiful frames
Misha 22:32
like of the palace that was really beautiful the first time you see it at dusk. I really liked that
Tyler 22:37
That's pretty. there's that one there's the cave with the with the lamp with the light shining on it. There's also the this frame when Aladdin is dropped into the sea. I thought that was really beautiful. Like the wide angle you just see the little white clothes going in. Pretty dark but cool. But overall watching it again. I thought again, the animation kind of look rushed as well. Like it's almost seems like they spent too much time making the genie look super perfect building off of what Robin Williams is doing in the studio. And then there- I just noticed a bunch of like tiny again, like all credit to animators, they're wonderful. I don't know what I'm talking about-
Misha 23:13
It's an art form that you need time to you. It's like, especially with animation.
Tyler 23:19
Yeah, but there's this- I just noticed some like small things like when, when Aladdin saves Jasmine from getting her hand cut off, he hands the sword to her and then that- the sword disappears. When they're riding on the carpet, like and they look into water. The reflection doesn't work, like Jasmine's flower wasn't reflected correctly. Like just little tiny things like that. Like the sleeve. Prince Ali. Aladdin as Prince Ali's sleeve length was changing. And also the faces in some parts like
Tyler 23:50
Yeah, I thought so too.
Tyler 23:51
It was moving in kind of a weird way. Yeah,
Misha 23:52
yeah. I also read I don't know how if this is true or not, but they wanted to animate Aladdin to look like Tom Cruise from Top Gun.
Tyler 24:04
Yeah,
Misha 24:05
barf.
Tyler 24:07
They were originally thinking of making Aladdin more like a 13 year old-ish, but then they're like, that's too kiddy. We want to make it more of like this. Yeah, Tom Cruz-y Han Solo-y type character. Speaking of that, yeah. Aladdin is supposed to be like 18, Jasmine 15 going on her 16th birthday in the original idea and then they cut it.
Misha 24:29
Yeah, but. Oh, well. It's not really in this though.
Tyler 24:35
Well, it's just I mean, that was-
Misha 24:36
Does he say her 16th birthday or just...
Tyler 24:39
He doesn't, they cut it out. But the original idea was she was 15 going on 16 And then Katzenberg said let's just say her next birthday because pervs gonna perv.
Misha 24:51
Yes
Tyler 24:53
Yeah, so I don't know animation I thought like overall was okay. I think like the Genie was great and like whole Prince Ali coming into Agrabah animation was pretty cool. And like the snake like when Jafar turns into a snake that's really cool. And then the whole like just final showdown with... with...
Misha 25:12
I like the scene where he's in... He gets shot in that tower and like goes to the snowy place. I don't know where that is, but yeah, in the mountains I thought that looked really cool too.
Tyler 25:24
Yeah,
Misha 25:24
I like that whole scene.
Tyler 25:25
And he does that- he does that like Buster Keaton move or he's go right where he's supposed to. Yeah. I don't know. What do you thin-? I was thinking like, five or six. 'Cause it's a bits, it's still fine, but it's a bit sloppy and then the CGI is a bit jarring. Yeah,
Misha 25:43
yeah, I'd say six.
Tyler 25:45
What did we say for a Goofy Movie by the way?
Misha 25:47
We gave Goofy Movie a 7.
Tyler 25:48
A 7. I do think I do think the animation in Goofy Movie's more polished than Aladdin.
Misha 25:53
I think so too, also the scenery in a Goofy Movie was really beautiful throughout the whole thing. It was more polished.
Tyler 26:00
That might be our like bias of liking those sort of like landscape painting looking backgrounds...
Misha 26:04
That's part of animation so...
Tyler 26:07
and that's part of this podcast. We get to choose, suck it. This is definitive.
Misha 26:17
Yeah,
Tyler 26:17
music music and sound. Yeah, yeah, this is the definitive list. Yeah.
Misha 26:24
Okay, music and sound. I mean, you can't not give this a high score. The music is awesome. I sang along, I haven't watched this in probably two decades and I remembered quite a bit of it.
Tyler 26:38
Music is music is mostly good I would say.
Misha 26:42
What don't you like?
Tyler 26:45
The ones that are good are great like I think "Friend Like Me" and "Prince Ali" are still great.
Misha 26:51
"One jump" I think is really good.
Tyler 26:52
"one jump" is okay. I never liked that song though. And I still don't.
Misha 26:56
Why?
Tyler 26:56
I don't know. I just don't like it. I don't-
Misha 26:58
I like the tempo of it. I think it's really fun. And-
Tyler 27:01
Yeah. I think I just don't like the... and it's not his fault. It's just I don't like the singer's voice maybe I think is it. I think it's just too... eh, it doesn't hit me the right way. I also really hate this one line in that song when that big lady with the weird baby voice says "still I think he's rather tasty" I just fucking-
Misha 27:21
I love that line!
Tyler 27:22
I hate that line. I don't know why it just bugs me, bugs me to death. I also kind of feel bad for the- the guards a little bit. They're just trying to do their job.
Misha 27:34
Oh, no. You know what, fuck the police.
Tyler 27:37
Well, fuck the police, but these are. This is Rasoul who's got the same voice as Pete from a Goofy Movie and... and Tigger. And I think Whinnie the Poo, too. Jim Cummings did all those voices... I don't know.
Misha 27:52
I never gonna side with the police.
Tyler 27:54
Actually- and you're right, fuck the guards because they were gonna straight up cut someone's hand off-
Misha 27:58
The problem is people don't have enough to eat so and who oversees all of that? The Sultan. Who oversees the guards? Okay. Instead of funding these stupid police officers and guards about you make sure your citizens have enough fucking food to eat.
Tyler 28:11
That's true.
Misha 28:12
Anyway, I don't... we're talking about music and sound.
Tyler 28:15
Yeah, I think I think it's implied that Jafar is in charge is the guards and the Sultan is like super aloof and doddering. So...
Misha 28:21
oh, he's an idiot.
Tyler 28:23
But I think like it's his fault, too. Like if he's leaving this up to his trusted advisor who is clearly evil.
Misha 28:28
Oh my god it's Bush and Cheney.
Tyler 28:30
Yeah. Music and sound. I didn't like "Arabian Nights" at the beginning. I think that's a lazy bad song.
Misha 28:39
Wow, we are not going to be giving the same score.
Tyler 28:44
Yeah, I think it's a bad song. And the original lyrics were so offensive, they had to change them.
Misha 28:51
Okay. Well, they weren't in the movie. So that's fine.
Tyler 28:53
They weren't in the movie. They were in the original theatrical release, as far as I remember. But they got changed because they were offensive. They didn't change the barbaric line. But anyway, yeah, I mean, I think the score should be high because of the songs that really hit and "a whole new world", I'm not a huge fan of it, but it is a classic.
Misha 29:09
Yes. I agree. I'm not that like I'm not that crazy about it. It's not even one of my favorite songs in this movie, but it is the only- I read this yesterday- It is the only Disney son to have ever won a Grammy for Song of the Year.
Tyler 29:24
Wow. Okay, I can see that.
Misha 29:25
Which I don't agree with. I think there are better Disney songs that should have won.
Tyler 29:28
For sure, but yeah. Even like, like, even like a... like "Let it Go" didn't win a Grammy.
Misha 29:34
Oh, I don't know when that ar- random blog post was written that I read.
Tyler 29:39
Or like, "Can you feel the love tonight"? I feel like that was all over...
Misha 29:43
I don't know. Listen, I don't know.
Tyler 29:47
No, I think you might be right. It's just it's, it's just It's wild. Because I think it's like strong song in the old Disney vein but it's just doesn't do it for me. I think it's also just because it's hard to get around the fact that like, Aladdin is lying his pants off. And also by the way, I- another part about the story. Sorry to go back to that, another thing that I just didn't like about the story is Aladdin is a prince now. Like he wished to be a prince not to be like a prince. He's a fucking Prince. So like, how does that get taken away? And anyway, whatever. Aladdin sucks. I'm willing to like, I mean, I gave, I gave music a seven. But I'm willing to go up a little bit because the songs... the songs that hit, hit hard.
Misha 30:35
And okay, the songs that hit, hit hard and the others are still good.
Tyler 30:41
Wow. Okay.
Misha 30:42
I- I think we need to go up to an eight. You're telling me "A Goofy Movie" gets nine for music. And Aladdin gets... you're thinking get Aladdin gets two points less.
Tyler 30:57
Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, eight, let's say eight. I think when we get to our midterm report, we may maybe need to bring that goofy score down a little...
Misha 31:08
I think we have to realize that if we watch shit, that's so atrocious like "A Christmas Carol" we need to not rank the next movie we watch so highly. This is our lesson.
Tyler 31:26
We've learned a lesson. Gang, we've learned some lessons here. Yeah, 8. Eight's fine with me. I mean...
Misha 31:31
Okay.
Tyler 31:32
Yeah. Because even the songs I don't like are very classic and iconic. Like um-
Misha 31:39
Yeah,
Tyler 31:40
So. Yeah.
Misha 31:41
And the music. I understand that you have some problems with the lyrics, but they're like, technically good.
Tyler 31:48
Yeah. Yeah. That is true, like the one that I don't like, what's it called? Again? "One step"? "one, jump."
Misha 31:55
One Jump.
Tyler 31:55
Yeah. Even that one is like, you know, a good song. Like, it's not for me.
Misha 32:02
Right.
Tyler 32:02
Like "a whole new world". So yeah, I'm fine with eight. Sure. Yeah.
Misha 32:07
Okay, now we're at Nippleless McGee, Aladdin.
Tyler 32:11
Yeah. I mean, straight up-
Misha 32:14
Tyler is just... is ableist, is that prejudice against people without nipples? I think that's where this stems from. That was your first comment about him.
Tyler 32:26
First one-
Misha 32:26
Rewind the tapes.
Tyler 32:27
Rewind the tapes. Yeah. The man's got no nipples. It's a bit weird, though. Like it's just such a weird animation choice. Why would you not give the guy nipples? Anyway, that's not why I don't like Aladdin. I don't like Aladdin because-
Misha 32:40
Maybe there was some rating thing like back in the day you couldn't-
Tyler 32:44
Oh, you know what? Maybe.
Misha 32:45
That's what I'm guessing that beefed to- You know, not be PG 13 or something.
Tyler 32:51
When has that ever stopped? I mean, I, I can't count the number of movies that have nipples in them that are PG. They're just dude- dude nipples are not considered nipples.
Misha 33:02
I know. It's bullshit. Instagram does that.
Tyler 33:04
Yeah, it's not just I just think like, Aladdin is this kind of... you feel for him because he, he's poor. And he's in a situation he doesn't deserve to be in. But like, I don't know, he's just kind of unlikable because he keeps making bad mistakes. And he doesn't really even... like he doesn't learn in the end. He just like, everything works out for him. Like his lie. His lie works out. And he gets what he wants. And he does free the genie. Yes.
Misha 33:32
Only because he got what he wanted.
Tyler 33:34
Yeah, that he wasn't going to and also the genie. The genie like straight up broke the rules for him. Like Aladdin tricked him into getting them out of the cave. Right? And that didn't count as a wish. The genie like, the genie like saved his life too, that shouldn't have counted as a wish either. Maybe according to the rules, but-
Misha 33:50
What were his wishes? So he wished to become a prince.
Tyler 33:54
-to be a prince. Second one was-
Misha 33:55
saved his life underwater.
Tyler 33:57
Yeah.
Misha 33:58
And then the third he freed the genie.
Tyler 34:00
Yeah. Which you could make the argument that that second one should have counted if the getting out of the cave didn't count 'cause the genie broke the rules to like,
Misha 34:06
Yeah,
Tyler 34:07
but -
Misha 34:08
but then he was like...
Tyler 34:09
saved his life- did it. So..
Misha 34:11
But then counted it right?
Tyler 34:12
Yeah. But um, I don't know. It's just, I don't know. I just don't really like Aladdin.
Misha 34:18
Okay. We're gonna get into this with our BIPOC category.
Tyler 34:24
Yeah. I'd love to hear what your thoughts are about this film. When it gets to that.
Misha 34:31
As a child, it was very exciting in that kind of way to see a brown hunky lead without a shirt on.
Tyler 34:42
Yeah.
Misha 34:43
You know, I don't know. I still... still... I'll still watch it. And like, you know, get behind that.
Tyler 34:49
Yeah. I love how at the end when like when they're flying off the carpet like, presumably to get married, although that doesn't happen until the third movie. Like he still... he still doesn't have like a shirt on. He's got a like a nice jacket on with no shirt.
Misha 35:02
Oh yeah, yeah,
Tyler 35:04
so funny.
Misha 35:04
I think that's great.
Tyler 35:05
He's gotta look. That's like a Vanill- Vanilla Ice thing to do. It's great
Misha 35:12
I don't know, I kind of like Aladdin. He's clever.
Tyler 35:16
Or MC Hammer sorry. Not Vanilla Ice, anyway. Yeah, I'm fine. I don't know. Maybe I'm being too mean.
Misha 35:24
He's clever enough. Yeah, also Tyler doesn't like poor people. So...
Tyler 35:29
You heard it here first. I feel like I have done my part when we were watching A Christmas Carol defending poor people. But rewind the tapes. I just think like, okay, but-
Misha 35:46
I think he's flat. Because you have- you can't have, if you have someone like the genie, who is literally and characteristically personality-wise, huge. You can't have a whole bunch of other characters who are not flat. Right? Aladdin is like, He's silly, clever, whatever it is, like shenanigans. But he has to be kind of flat because you can't have him alongside the genie and be anything more than that.
Tyler 36:19
Yeah, I see your point. But I also just think like, he's, I don't know, he's, he's
Misha 36:25
If he told the truth, the movie wouldn't have happened.
Tyler 36:28
Yeah. And his motive... Yeah, yeah. And his again, that's the same thing with like, A Goofy Movie.
Misha 36:33
He wanted to get his dong wet. And you know, trying to do whatever he could to do that. So...
Tyler 36:38
Yeah, I was just about to say the same thing, as I said, with a Goofy Movie. Like, I don't agree with the way.. I.. like it's a relatable goal that Max had and that Aladdin has like, like,
Misha 36:48
Right
Tyler 36:48
Going to bone town.
Misha 36:49
And Aladdin is supposed to be 18.
Tyler 36:51
Yeah,
Misha 36:52
Yeah, teenagers are dumb as fuck. Of course, he's gonna lie the whole time. Thinking like, "Oh, this is what I have to do."
Tyler 36:59
Yeah,
Misha 36:59
He's not like 30 Whatever, making, you know, reasonable logical decisions.
Tyler 37:05
So do we think we should give him like a comparable score that we that we gave to like Max, or do you think he's better than Max?
Misha 37:14
I think he's better than Max.
Tyler 37:16
Okay. All right.
Misha 37:18
You don't?
Tyler 37:20
I don't know if I agree. Like Max is a more relatable teenager like Aladdin... Aladdin, I- I can't relate to Aladdin as well as I can relate to it. And that's not because he's poor. That's not what I'm saying.
Misha 37:35
I think he's fine. You know what? Just as good as Max and not better. I would go with that. I would give him a 6.
Tyler 37:43
Let's say six. I just feel like seven is a bit too high for Aladdin. I don't know.
Misha 37:46
All right. All right.
Tyler 37:47
side kicks.
Misha 37:49
I mean,
Tyler 37:50
this is like a nine. Right? This has to be.
Misha 37:53
Yeah.
Tyler 37:54
We've got the carpet. We've got the genie, we've got Abu.
Misha 37:58
Okay, I love the carpet.
Tyler 37:59
The carpet is so great.
Misha 38:00
The carpet reminds me of the ottoman from Beauty and the Beast. So cute, so helpful and smart and like smarter than Aladdin.
Tyler 38:08
That must have been a bitch to animate, too, like basically like, trying to get the carpet to have like a personality was...
Misha 38:16
I say a nine for side kicks. I mean,
Tyler 38:19
What can we say? Like it's just they're so g- Abu is kind of a dick. But he's still got heart and I like him. The genie is like, I mean, what what can we say about the genie that hasn't been said a million times? Like yeah, Genie is great. The genie is like the best part of the movie I think.
Misha 38:32
The point of - right. Well, like you said the animated the genie for Robin Williams.
Tyler 38:37
Yeah.
Misha 38:37
And he did his like, riffing. And then they animated him.
Tyler 38:42
Yeah, just you can even find on like YouTube like, like drafts based on other things. Other improv things that he's done.
Misha 38:49
Yeah, he's done like was like five extra hours of just riffing some which were like rated R and couldn't be included in the movie.
Tyler 39:01
Yeah, our friend, our friend Dave was mentioning that too that he did the same thing with like Mrs. Doubtfire right that there was like
Misha 39:06
oh yeah,
Tyler 39:07
talking about release the the X rated Doubtfire cut right
Misha 39:10
yeah. I wanna see that.
Tyler 39:14
The the weirdest thing about the genie is just like eat like watching back like all of Robin Williams's references are just so old. Like it's like, it's like
Misha 39:22
Oh yeah.
Tyler 39:23
"Groucho" Marx, Ed Sullivan. Like Peter Lorre,
Misha 39:27
Jack Nicholson was like more contemporary but yeah, you know...
Tyler 39:31
I love it. But But yeah, it's funny. Yeah, I don't know. Like, it's great. The genie is great. The genie is also like a character we want to root for because he's in a shitty situation and all he wants is to be free.
Misha 39:42
Yeah.
Tyler 39:43
So...
Misha 39:43
I have been saying since I saw that movie, my sister and I will often just say "poof What do you need?" Whenever we're asking? And stupid Steve. My husband didn't know up until yesterday. What that was. He just thought it was like something my Dad said,
Tyler 40:01
Really? wow.
Misha 40:02
And I was like, uh, he needs to have a better education. His PhD doesn't count for shit if he doesn't know what that's from.
Tyler 40:13
If you don't know, "I can't bring people back from the dead. Not a pretty picture I don't like doing" and you don't know where that's from just throw your PhD out the window. Yeah, the genie is great. What else can we say? I also like what's his name? Oh, he doesn't really count as a side kicks. I was gonna say Raja, I like Raja, but that doesn't he doesn't really count...
Misha 40:37
I do like Raja.
Tyler 40:38
It is a bit weird to just straight up have a this is like Tiger King style, like, straight up have a tiger as a pet.
Misha 40:44
I mean, you know, like, if you look back through history, though, all of these royal people just exchanged fucking wild animals as gifts-
Tyler 40:54
...animals. Yeah. Yeah.
Misha 40:55
Like exotic- Yeah, so I mean, kind of normal. Not gonna lie. I know. I do not believe in keeping wild animals in captivity. But I do wish I had a Raja.
Tyler 41:09
Yeah, that's the thing-
Misha 41:10
Especially when he gets turned into a kitten!
Tyler 41:13
yeah. It's like, I don't agree with it. But I do want a friend orangutan like living with me as a roommate, but-
Misha 41:20
Yes, eating soap bubbles.
Tyler 41:21
Yeah. So yeah, I don't know. Like, this is pretty cut and dry. I would say nine. I mean-
Misha 41:27
Yeah.
Tyler 41:28
Do we, do we dare to think about a ten?
Misha 41:30
I thought- that's what I thought-. Yeah, that's what I was thinking.
Tyler 41:37
I mean, think about what's coming next. Like what movie has better sidekicks?
Misha 41:42
Nobody
Tyler 41:44
Ten... do... Shall we go for the 10
Misha 41:45
10 feels...
Tyler 41:48
I feel like we should hold off on a 10.
Misha 41:49
Let's, let's...
Tyler 41:52
I'm gonna leave this to you. If you put down if you put down a 10 I'm gonna agree with it if you put it in right I'm gonna agree with it.
Misha 41:58
Um, we've got Abu.
Tyler 42:01
Abu's the weakest link here honestly.
Misha 42:04
That's why... we've got the carpet. Who I um.... Okay, the carpet, Abu, and the genie. I think we should go with a nine because there's... they're not perfect.
Tyler 42:15
Yeah, I mean, so and also the the genie is great. But the genie is basically just Robin Williams being crazy. It's not like he's not like a 3d fully fleshed out character. I mean, but he's still great. Yeah, nine. Let's go nine.
Misha 42:27
Okay, great. Villain. Let's talk about Jafar and how creepy and pervy he is.
Tyler 42:33
He's a pervert McGee.
Misha 42:34
He's scary.
Tyler 42:35
He's a perv boy.
Misha 42:36
He's is a little dumb.
Tyler 42:37
He is. Yeah. He's dumb. He's not he's a schemer, but he's not good at scheming.
Misha 42:44
Although he loves puns.
Tyler 42:46
He does love puns.
Misha 42:47
At the end when he's like, "you're all out of time!" And then Jasmine gets put in the hourglass. And then he was like, "Stop toying around!" and Abu turns into the little monkey toy.
Tyler 43:02
And he said something...
Misha 43:03
And he says to the carpet like, "Oh, you're becoming unraveled!" And then yeah.
Tyler 43:06
And then he said something about the- like, "get the point" or something then swords came down, which he should have just... He's like an all powerful sorcerer. Why did he just like impale Aladdin there? That would have made a better movie too for me.
Misha 43:17
Yeah. Why don't he just kill everybody?
Tyler 43:21
That's also true. Well, you know, it is a kid's movie.
Misha 43:24
Okay, right. Right.
Tyler 43:26
But it does get dark. He's like, "Yeah, so that guy you met, I be headed him." Straight up to Jasmine. And then they fucking they throw him a Prince Ali off a cliff with the concrete boots like...
Misha 43:39
...not knowing that the Genie was gonna help him. So they did attempted murder. And then he's like, basically, like raping Jasmine.
Tyler 43:51
Yeah. And the weird... Like, they're like, how can we make this guy more despicable? Oh, yeah, make him eat an apple and like, get it all over the place. Like, make him a slovenly eater as well.
Misha 44:00
Is it wrong for me to say that Jasmine looked super sexy in that scene, though?
Tyler 44:05
I would.... Okay, here's the thing. I would agree with you. But then I found out that she's supposed to be like a teen and then it may be...
Misha 44:14
Ew! Right. Okay.
Tyler 44:15
And then and then you're like, then you get the people who are like, "Well, she's really like mature looking for her age." It's just like don't go - tha'ts gross.
Misha 44:21
okay. I didn't know that when I was watching it. Yeah. Okay. But anyway,
Tyler 44:26
I think it's... yeah, they're super like sexualizing her with the way she looks and if the idea... I think probably what happened is the original idea like with Aladdin was younger, but then they scrapped it. But nobody, nobody told Wikipedia that so when I looked it up, I was like ugh, okay,
Misha 44:42
yeah, okay, I didn't see that. All right. What are we giving Jafar?
Tyler 44:46
I don't... looking back on it like watching it again. I don't think Jafar is that memorable of a- he's memorable, but he's not a great villain because he's a bit bad at his job. He's not as good of-
Misha 44:57
He is creepy.
Tyler 44:58
He is creepy. So he will get creep points.
Misha 45:01
They animated him well to be-
Tyler 45:03
Yes.
Misha 45:03
A creep. Yeah, I think part of the problem is that when you have a Sultan who's such a bumbling idiot, he doesn't have to work. Jafar doesn't have to work that hard to be a villain.
Tyler 45:15
Yeah. That's true.
Misha 45:17
Eh, he was fine.
Tyler 45:18
He could've worked a little harder like he had like that mind control thing, just like go whole hog and keep mind controlling-
Misha 45:24
He had powers.
Tyler 45:25
Yeah
Misha 45:26
'cause he did the ring thing with his spell to try to find out who the diamond in the rough was. So what more did he need? Anyway... Yeah, not a very well developed character for us to understand. I'd say a six.
Tyler 45:41
Yeah, I'm fine with the six. That's kind of where I was going to. Yeah,
Misha 45:44
Great.
Tyler 45:47
Henchmen. I... Yeah. What do you think about...
Misha 45:49
How do you... Gilbert Godfried?
Tyler 45:51
How do you, how do you, how do you get into that?
Misha 45:54
How do you feel about a parrot with a full set of teeth?
Tyler 45:57
Yeah, that is just weird, isn't it? Yeah, he's, they gave him just a full set of fucking chompers.
Misha 46:05
Human teeth.
Tyler 46:06
I liked Iago more this time around than I did when I was younger.
Misha 46:11
Hmm.
Tyler 46:12
He didn't bother me as much maybe because I'm just more inured to the Gilbert Godfried voice but he is the one who gives... I think he should get credit for giving Jafar the the idea to try to marry Jasmine and get get more power that way. So he's a helpful... he is a bit of a bumbling fool too but he's super helpful. Like, as far as the henchmen is goes.
Misha 46:34
I just felt like he fell flat. I wasn't like that impressed or bothered by him one way or another.
Tyler 46:44
Okay. Well, he's definitely better than... who else have we looked at? He's better than well, there kind of was no henchmen in A Goofy Movie. I think he's better than the henchmen in A Bug's Life.
Misha 47:00
Okay, we cannot give Iago an eight. We gave a henchman a seven. Yeah. I'm not saying henchmen are better- I think the henchmen in A Bug's Life are way better than Iago.
Tyler 47:13
You think so? But it's like Molt who doesn't have a lot of screen time. And then it's all the grasshoppers-
Misha 47:17
Molt is hilarious. I like Molt for like a bumbling sidekick better than Iago.
Tyler 47:25
Okay. Six then.
Misha 47:28
Yeah.
Tyler 47:29
I also think like Iago- Yeah, more than...
Misha 47:32
I don't think he was that funny. He was supposed to be funny.
Tyler 47:34
Yeah, he's not super funny. He... I did like the... the getting back at the Sulton with the crackers, though. I liked that part. I was rooting for him because... I was rooting for him to like shove the Sultan's face full of crackers. I also don't think like as a henchmen he's better than Jafar as a villain. So yeah, it's six. Sounds good to me. Yeah. All right.
Misha 47:56
Great.
Tyler 47:57
This podcast is a lot of you talking me into things. But that's fine.
Misha 48:03
Tyler, you're wrong!
Tyler 48:05
Yeah. Strong Female Lead. Well, there wasn't one.
Misha 48:09
Yeah, there wasn't one. All- like there's only one female character, right? Who's like a regular character. And that was Jasmine. And she was in need of saving. And they tried to feminist her by having her express her concern about being, like married off, but ultimately, she didn't really have a choice and she's still going to marry Aladdin.
Tyler 48:35
Yeah,
Misha 48:36
I'd rather her. Go ahead.
Tyler 48:39
She's like, so against this whole tradition. But then like when she meets a prince, she's totally fine with it. Like, she meets Prince Ali. And she's like, "Okay, now I'm totally cool with this, this tradition. Let's get married. Now." It's like, and why did they have that convers- That garden conversation happened like, what- They should have had that conversation earlier where she opens up to her dad about not liking the tradition. It's like, your fucking- you gotta get married in three days. Again, the story is rushed. I think.
Misha 49:06
Yeah. We're not seeing her childhood.
Tyler 49:09
And then she leaves, she's like, "I gotta go sorry Raja never see you again." But- and Raja is like, "wait, what? You're leaving me here and you're leaving forever?"
Misha 49:17
Yeah.
Tyler 49:17
She just leaves her buddy. She doesn't take her buddy Tiger along. I guess it'd be a little bit of a conspicuous pet to have out in the streets of Agrabah. But... But yeah, I don't know. She's Jasmine, um-
Misha 49:29
Not... She's not the lead and the leads are Genie and Aladdin.
Tyler 49:35
Yeah.
Misha 49:37
One?
Tyler 49:38
Yeah, I would say one. It's not a-
Misha 49:40
It sucks.
Tyler 49:41
It does suck but like we got to be... we got to be objective of this. Like if a movie doesn't have a strong female lead, and some of them will. We'll get their but.
Misha 49:49
Yep. All right, you ready to talk about BIPOC representation and portrayal?
Tyler 49:54
Lay it on Me.
Misha 49:55
Okay. This was the first time... that I recall. Other than watching Indian movies like growing up produced in India, this is the first time I ever saw anybody, not black or white in a kid's movie, pretty much, and never- didn't expect it to come from a Disney movie. And it... Although I didn't exactly identify with Jasmine, it meant a lot to me. And I know there are problems. And I was actually surprised, and I want to talk to you about this, the Disney Plus app had the warning like the racism warning at the beginning. But not gonna lie. They didn't have to do this. They could have just not had a movie even though it's fictional, where it doesn't really take place anywhere. It's obviously Arabic, Muslim, Middle Eastern, Persian, whatever, they didn't have to do that. And yes, it's... there are problems. But it paves the way for other things to happen. And I think it deserves credit. Okay. I did look up who the actors were... pretty much an all white cast again. So that bothers me. Because what the fuck, like, you're having this all brown movie. And you don't have a single actor who is from anywhere close to that region of the world. You can be American, right? Because it's an American movie. But...
Tyler 51:30
Yeah.
Misha 51:31
That really bothers me. The only non white person that I could tell was the singer for Jasmine. And she's a Filipina American actor.
Tyler 51:41
Yeah. What was her...? What's her name? Oh, crap, Regina Belle? Regina Belle. No.
Misha 51:47
I don't remember her name. But... so that was disappointing. But it's a big deal to have a Disney movie cartoon with all brown people. And I still like to watch that. And it like, because I'm so... still today. There's so much that I watch that... It's all white. And like I was watching cartoons with my nephews yesterday or the day before and they're new cartoons. And why are all the characters white? When it's just cartoons, they don't have to be. There's no point and doing that other than the people who make them are white racists. So yes, all the actors are white. But I like that this movie... It made me feel as a child. And still today, it makes me feel like okay, we can think about other parts of the world and other people and other cultures that aren't just white American.
Tyler 52:47
Yeah, yeah.
Misha 52:48
My question for you is...
Tyler 52:50
Lea Salonga, by the way, is the name of the singer. I had to look it up.
Misha 52:53
Oh, thank you. Yeah.
Tyler 52:54
'Cause she also did the voice the singing voice for Mulan, I think.
Misha 52:57
Oh, okay.
Tyler 52:59
What's your question?
Misha 53:00
My question is, so this is a historical piece, technically, right? It's doesn't take place in 1992, wherever in the Middle East, even though people have compared it to Baghdad. So it's a historical story. Do you think Disney would have a warning for the misrepresentation of historical white stories? Right? So... it's like... it because it's not conte- Like how is it... They have this racism warning because of the misrepresentation of other races, other cultures, when I saw that it made me feel like fuck you. Now you're just othering brown people. Because I know like the barbaric thing, the chopping off the hands, whatever. Right? Like they're emphasizing that, but it's also like, it's a historical setting.
Tyler 53:59
I mean, Disney has a very long history of problematic representation, obviously.
Misha 54:05
Right.
Tyler 54:06
And yeah, I don't know. Like, when I was a kid, I just really liked that the movie was set in a different place that I didn't know anything about. And I liked that the people looked different. And it was a different story that I didn't really know. Now as an adult, you know, it... I do see it as troubling and like, like furthering sort of that Orientalist discourse. But I think like, I don't know, yeah, like Disney... It's classic Disney. They're like trying to do something different and like, be diverse, but in a clumsy way. I just think it's super clumsy. And is problematic. And I... a lot of people who are smarter than me said it, it is super problematic because it furthers like a certain view of that region, even if it's like quasi historical like, even that is stereotypical, like what women were supposed to look like and what you know, what the palace was like and all that stuff. One of the... one of the other problems I had with Aladdin was like the whole, like, the idea of like, marrying off this daughter is like this exotic thing that happens in history, but it hap- like...
Misha 55:16
It's not all royalty like, you look at-
Tyler 55:18
That's a European thing, as well.
Misha 55:20
I was gonna say that's the story of Europe.
Tyler 55:22
Yeah, I don't know. I mean...
Misha 55:24
Look at- on the level of like, just the lay people like civilians that it was only about royalty. And that's super common.
Tyler 55:30
Yeah.
Misha 55:31
Across royalty and monarchies and whatever across the world.
Tyler 55:37
Yeah. I mean, I think... I think you... Your point is so super, super valid, like the, like, being able to identify with those characters, even if it's like, even if it's like a clumsy portrayal. It's, it's really important that you and I'm sure so many other people, like had that moment, right? It's really important. So yeah, let's, I mean, I mean, but so what do you think the score should be?
Misha 56:05
I don't think it should be as low as you probably would have given it.
Tyler 56:10
Well, my I'm sort of separating my Edward Said based Orientalist or like view of the movie from like, that lens. I'm separating that and putting it into like, doesn't sit right a little bit.
Misha 56:22
Okay.
Tyler 56:23
I think like, I was fully... I didn't give it a score, because I was fully gonna go with whatever you wanted, because I figured that you had a super different approach. I mean, I watched it and I liked it. But I'm a you know, a cis white dude from New Hampshire. It's like, I don't know what the fuck I'm talking about. So...
Misha 56:40
I think if I didn't look up the actors, which we have to it's an animated movie, and we've been doing that this whole time. I would have probably given it a higher score than what I am going to give it just because that also sucks. Like...
Tyler 56:53
Yeah, like, that's the thing. Yeah, it's getting some points for the representation part. But it's not getting it for like, like,
Misha 57:02
the actual inclusivity of...
Tyler 57:04
Exactly. Yeah,
Misha 57:05
right.
Tyler 57:05
Yeah.
Tyler 57:06
I don't know. What do you think like, whatever you whatever you are feeling?
Misha 57:10
And, you know, they talk about... so some of my favorite line, my favorite line, one of my favorite lines in the movie... Actually, the Sulton says, and he's talking to Raja, it's when they're out in the garden, and he's fighting with Jasmine and she's all mad and then like, you know, the Sultan huffs and puffs. And then he says to Raja, "Allah forbid, you should have any daughters." And I love that line, just like, I don't know, I just always really liked that line. And I liked that they mentioned Allah and it's not like whitewashed in the way that they ignore that it is a Muslim based movie or carr-, right, like, group of people or whatever I'm trying to say. You know, there's a couple times that they mentioned Allah and they didn't have to, they could have just left all that out.
Tyler 58:02
And they didn't do it and like a nudge nudge wink wink way, at least I didn't feel they did. It was like, it was a way that the name is expressed. Like it is sometimes used as like in exasperation.
Misha 58:13
So I want to give this category a seven, which might feel high to you.
Tyler 58:20
That does feel pretty high to me, but it's up to you.
Misha 58:24
Don't say it's up to me, but I- Okay. Here are things that I'm wondering. Who has made the decision and who are having the conversations that this is a racist movie? Is it a bunch of white people who are trying to be woke and trying to be respectful? Or is it people who are, you know, South Asian, Middle Eastern, grew up- like had something to enjoy with people who kind of looked like them growing up, and we'll put aside the offensive aspects of this because it's all we had?
Tyler 58:57
Well, I thi- it's, it's probably a mix, but I know one very notable example was a guy named Jack Shaheen, he was a writer. He wrote a book called like "Reel bad Arabs" but reel spelled like a film reel and it was all about like Arabs and Muslims stereotypes in popular culture.
Misha 59:15
Right.
Tyler 59:16
He- from I want to say his parents were from Lebanon, but I can't remember. He may not have even been Muslim he may be like Lebanese Christian or something but, but he was a big proponent of like, fighting against anti Arab stereotypes and films and stuff and I seem to recall reading-
Misha 59:33
And it's no even anti-Arab, it's like real...
Tyler 59:35
No, but he had a problem with it. I remember because it's like, why don't you put some like the... aside from the two main, like characters, not including the genie like Aladdin and Jasmine. All the townsfolk are either stereotypical like, like mean spirited type people that are greedy or they're like others type of stereotype like a scantily clad a harem girl, like,
Misha 1:00:00
Oh, yeah.
Tyler 1:00:01
This is not his... Those aren't his words necessarily but he... one thing I-
Misha 1:00:05
The scantily clad... There was no in- No, there were women that were not like that though.
Tyler 1:00:12
Yeah, there were like two big ladies.
Misha 1:00:14
There were other women who weren't, who were dressed just modestly with scarves on their head and full clothing that weren't large ladies, they were just...
Tyler 1:00:27
Yeah.
Misha 1:00:27
I see the p- okay. I know that they're, I guess I'm trying to give it more points. because... it would... I don't know, maybe I'm... my personal bias is that it meant a lot to me, like...
Tyler 1:00:44
Yeah, that's a good point.
Misha 1:00:46
To have any kind of representation, especially as a kid, and so although the Genie when they animated him with like, flesh, skin color was off and like, kinda gro-
Tyler 1:01:03
White? Kind of weird sunburn pink.
Misha 1:01:05
Yeah, like pinkish white. And that was gross. But whatever. I don't know, maybe we should go lower because...
Tyler 1:01:13
I think it should I mean,
Misha 1:01:14
The actors, and...
Tyler 1:01:15
I think the actors...
Misha 1:01:16
there were...
Tyler 1:01:17
It's Disney. It's like Disney doing something. And on the one hand, it's good that they're reaching out and like showing different cultures, but they they're just not sticking the landing. And that's the classic Disney story.
Misha 1:01:27
Yeah, yeah.
Tyler 1:01:29
So I mean, I feel like seven.
Misha 1:01:31
Want to do a 5?
Tyler 1:01:31
Seven is too generous. I'm, I'm willing to give it a five.
Misha 1:01:34
What were- if I didn't have these feelings about it, what would you have given it?
Tyler 1:01:40
I mean, I would have given it maximum- I didn't write it down. But maximum like four just because everything else has been a one because it's been...
Misha 1:01:48
Zero representation.
Tyler 1:01:49
Its been zero representation, right?
Misha 1:01:52
You're right. I think it's seven is too high. Because we're gonna come- we're gonna be seeing a lot of movies down the road that actually deserve higher ratings, that do a better job. I'm assum- like, yeah.
Tyler 1:02:04
So we can say five and then maybe...
Misha 1:02:06
This just sucks. It's the only thing that's close to anything that I identify with and it sucks.
Tyler 1:02:11
Yeah, sometimes, sometimes. I don't know sometimes. Kill your darlings.
Misha 1:02:17
Ugh Disney. All right, five.
Tyler 1:02:18
Yeah.
Misha 1:02:20
Okay.
Tyler 1:02:21
Fun factor. I, I feel like the fun factor would be... uh... fun factor. It's a fun movie.
Misha 1:02:26
We gave... We gave a Goofy Movie a 10!
Tyler 1:02:29
We gave it a 10. Yeah, I saw that. We gave A Goofy Movie a 10.
Misha 1:02:33
Oh my god.
Tyler 1:02:34
A Goofy Movie is fucking fun, though. It's super fun.
Misha 1:02:36
Yeah, it is really fun. I wouldn't give this much... as much fun as a Goofy Movie.
Tyler 1:02:41
No.
Misha 1:02:41
It was fun. But like...
Tyler 1:02:43
I also don't think it's as fun as A Bug's Life. I think A Bug's Life is a bit more fun. Yeah.
Misha 1:02:50
No, I think this was more fun than A Bug's Life.
Tyler 1:02:52
You know what, I'm totally fucking... I'm full of shit. Because the genie is so fun.
Misha 1:02:55
The music is so much fun in this. The genie is super fun. I think this is more fun than A Bug's Life.
Tyler 1:03:02
Yeah, I agree. I'm full of shit.
Misha 1:03:05
Yes.
Tyler 1:03:06
Eight?
Misha 1:03:07
Yeah, let's give it an EIGHT. It's really fun. All right. So we've got doesn't sit right as a possible way to lose points.
Tyler 1:03:17
Yeah.
Misha 1:03:17
The opposite of bonus points, movies can get points taken away. And this doesn't- I feel like we took away points from the BIPOC representation.
Tyler 1:03:30
This doesn't sit right. It's kind of a nebulous, like we gave A Christmas Carol famously, maximum negative points because of the uncanny valley horror that it was the eldritch monster, tha-
Misha 1:03:43
So take out the BIPOC representation and portrayal right from doesn't sit right. I don't think this just lose.
Tyler 1:03:49
Yeah, it's so it's so tough, though. Because I mean...
Misha 1:03:51
I know but we took out- we took away points from that category.
Tyler 1:03:55
Yeah.
Misha 1:03:56
And because of the actors, nobody's really a person of color who's acting except for that one singer.
Tyler 1:04:04
Yeah, other than that, and just kind of the, the sort of some of the pervier parts...
Misha 1:04:11
Should we take away a couple points for the perviness of Jafar? And the teeth of Iago?
Tyler 1:04:17
But the thing- Yeah, that's the thing and the horny flamingo too that's like wants to bone Iago.
Misha 1:04:23
I love that par- I wrote that down is one of my favorite parts!
Tyler 1:04:26
I did... I did like the... I did like the horny, horny flamingo.
Misha 1:04:30
I thought hat was really cute.
Tyler 1:04:31
I did I just I just mentioned it because you reminded me of it. I think it does need to... it does need to get some negative points for clumsy portrayal of culture. But I know we took points off for BIPOC representation but saying things like barbaric...
Misha 1:04:48
But also you weren't around back in like 300, so how do you know?
Tyler 1:04:53
I wasn't but neither was Disney and Disney is building it on like 19th century representations of what the Ottoman Empire and what the caliphates were and things like that. So, but yeah, it's it's based on...
Misha 1:05:05
Obviously we all know that, duh.
Tyler 1:05:07
European, it's based on European representations of the other, right?
Misha 1:05:12
Yes. Yep.
Tyler 1:05:13
Even if.. even that's... like as sorry to get really- put my take- I'm taking off my science classes and putting on my social science classes really quick.
Misha 1:05:20
Nerd.
Tyler 1:05:20
Even when it's a positive look like some of the art and paintings, it's still orientalism.
Misha 1:05:25
Yes. So I was also thinking like, besides the actor- the voice actors who on this team of people creating this movie are Muslim or Arabic or from the mid- or Middle Eastern, probably nobody,
Tyler 1:05:43
nobody. And they probably didn't like consult anything.
Misha 1:05:46
That's- right.
Tyler 1:05:46
Except like The Thief of Bagdad.
Misha 1:05:47
So that was my question, like, right. I was like wondering if they consulted with anybody on that. And, of course, they didn't.
Tyler 1:05:56
No. The only thing I saw that any sort of consultation was between the different studios working on the... because like different animators working specific characters like Jafar, there was consultation like that... the person working on Abu went to the zoo and looked at monkeys for a while, like, but as far as like,
Misha 1:06:13
Oh well see that's problematic, too, because monkeys shouldn't be in captivity.
Tyler 1:06:17
Right. But yeah, I don't think... I don't know. Yeah, I think a couple points. We dunked on it in the BIPOC category, we do.. I still think need to take some negative points of this category. Also, I think the perviness of Jafar is okay, because that... that adds...
Misha 1:06:35
Portrays his villainous character...
Tyler 1:06:36
His villainy. The perviness that I was not as cool with was like, like, Aladdin's perviness like, but he's a teen I get that. But there's one... when he's Prince Ali on the balcony, and she's coming towards them, he like does this look that is just the sleaziest grossest look. And it really, it really made me angry. I don't know. He just like he's like, "yeah..."
Misha 1:06:56
I don't. What-
Tyler 1:06:57
"Yeah,"
Misha 1:06:57
Okay. Yes. #YesAllMen. okay.
Tyler 1:07:01
Yeah, exactly. Men are- men are the worst.
Misha 1:07:04
Gross.
Tyler 1:07:04
Men are fucking gross. Yeah, they're, I mean, I wouldn't give it a negative 10 or anything like that. Because this isn't A Christmas Carol here for God's sakes. But like negative five, I think maybe like negative five.
Misha 1:07:17
Negative two. What? Negative five? Jesus? No, not negative five.
Tyler 1:07:23
I don't know.
Misha 1:07:24
Negative two.
Tyler 1:07:26
But then we're not going... no...
Misha 1:07:28
we took out... okay.
Tyler 1:07:30
Okay, negative two for cultural portrayal. Negative one or two for Iago's teeth.
Misha 1:07:35
One because that would... that would should lose an animation because they animated teeth in.
Tyler 1:07:40
Yeah. When we did count it off there. It's okay. How about negative- how about let's compromise - minus three points.
Misha 1:07:46
For what?
Tyler 1:07:48
For... Like Aladdin being a creep a little bit?
Tyler 1:07:52
No he- No.
Tyler 1:07:54
And culture- cultural stuff.
Misha 1:07:55
The cultural stuff only, not Aladdin being a creep.
Tyler 1:08:00
Did we count that in our protagonist score? Yeah, we did kind of okay. Minus minus two... minus two. You win again.
Misha 1:08:06
This is me convincing Tyler
Tyler 1:08:09
It's gonna be like, I don't know. It's gonna be fucking like Cars 3. I'm just gonna dominate the... I don't know something Chicken fucking Little. What the fuck.
Misha 1:08:22
God.
Tyler 1:08:24
Okay. Despite everything we said about this movie, and its problems. I do still think it has that sort of Disney magic.
Misha 1:08:32
I 100% agree. This needs extra points for Disney magic.
Tyler 1:08:38
Yeah. And it's like smack dab. It's part of that whole you know, quote, unquote, Disney renaissance. Like those classic ones. So...
Misha 1:08:45
yeah.
Tyler 1:08:46
What do you think about like, plus five to effervescence?
Misha 1:08:49
That's more than I was going to give.
Tyler 1:08:51
Okay.
Misha 1:08:52
I was gonna do plus three.
Tyler 1:08:55
I'm fine with being mean. But I do think it does have that... It is just... it has like, yeah, it has like a spark. I think it's just again like the genie but... yeah plus three is fine. I'm willing to drop down.
Misha 1:09:07
So I don't want to give so many points just for the genie. Well, I don't think it moved me the way I expected to be moved. And I don't- I think it was fun.
Tyler 1:09:20
Yeah,
Misha 1:09:21
Which we- But I don't think that Disney magic was as...
Tyler 1:09:28
It's definitely worn off. Yeah, it's not like watching it when you're kids. Yeah. I wonder though like, I wonder like, some of my friends have kids or you know, some of our friends have kids. And I wonder like, I wonder what kids these days think of it.
Misha 1:09:40
Yeah,
Tyler 1:09:41
because also like watching the fucking the newer one. I don't want to get into that too much. But that one had like just zero magic to it. Like I watched this one. I watched the 1992 one and then I watched a little bit of the sequels and then I watched the new one with Will Smith and it's just like, like are kids watching that and enjoying it? It's like... it just has... it's just... just came off so like so soul-less everyone was trying really hard but it wasn't going anywhere so...
Misha 1:10:10
I will say some of the establishing shots like the cave, the palace, like the scenery... I think that... Okay, let's go with...
Tyler 1:10:22
I'm fine with plus three, I was... I think I'm being too nice...
Misha 1:10:25
Why don't we compromise and give it a four.
Tyler 1:10:28
Okay, I'm starting to think it's a bit... I'm starting to think four a bit too much but yeah, let's go four.
Misha 1:10:34
Okay.
Tyler 1:10:35
I just keep talking myself out of things as well. So what is the total here? I think this might end up getting the high- the best score.
Misha 1:10:42
All right so Aladdin gets... ready?
Tyler 1:10:46
Ready .
Misha 1:10:49
64 out of 110 points.
Tyler 1:10:51
Tie with a Goofy Movie. Wow.
Misha 1:10:55
Yeah, tied.
Tyler 1:10:56
I did not expect that but I'm also not good at math. So I could have probably anticipated this if I was doing the numbers but...
Misha 1:11:03
yeah,
Tyler 1:11:03
okay. Interesting.
Misha 1:11:05
I... I after watching A Goofy Movie I'm not surprised because we both loved it but I am surprised just because of the weight Aladdin had on culture and society as... for kids, it was like a huge movie so...
Tyler 1:11:20
I think we may be in the minority thinking A Goofy Movie is the pinnacle of the Disney renaissance. There's a YouTube video... I can't remember... I'll put it in like the comments or something later if I remember, but there's a good YouTube video by this guy who does a lot of good - Sideways I think is the channel - does a lot of good videos on like the music in Disney films.
Tyler 1:11:38
Is it by Paul Giamatti?
Tyler 1:11:39
By Giamatts? No, har har. And the title of the YouTube video, you would love this, at least in some of our listeners, like, basically like, why Goofy Movie is better than you remember. And it's just a love letter to Goo-. But he takes an interesting take because he knows a lot more about musical theater than we do. So he goes into a deep dive of like, why the musical numbers are good. And..
Misha 1:12:03
so good!
Tyler 1:12:04
yeah. And yeah. Well, as always, it's been a pleasure.
Misha 1:12:10
Yeah, this has been fun. Yeah. Thanks y'all for listening.
Tyler 1:12:14
Thank you. Yeah, thanks
Misha 1:12:15
Stay safe.
Tyler 1:12:16
Bye.
Misha 1:12:17
Bye!
Tyler 1:12:40
Hey, gang, Tyler here. Just wanted to say another. Thank you so much to all of you for listening and supporting the show. Misha and I really appreciate it. Thank you so so so much. And if you liked the show and you haven't subscribed yet, please consider doing so. And also any spreading of the word would be much appreciated. Tell your friends, tell your enemies, and so on. And if you want to get in touch with us the email and social media contact is in the episode description. I'll give them here too. Our email address is [email protected] and @muchabupod on Twitter and Instagram. Once again, thank you so much for listening. Until next time.